• Cl4ud3
    2.9k
    So I've been looking at PID controllers for a long time, way before I had a need for one, but I still have no idea what one to get and for the most part have no clue about them technically. I currently have one for the Glass Symphony XLR but I do want a seperate controller for general use and possibly a Flowerpot down the line. The GS one is also set for the GS and I would have no clue about it's settings or how to reprogramme the unit, so that PID I would rather leave alone.

    I know a lot of people go for the Auber Instruments RDK 2 or 300 but I've been also looking at the Hexnail (https://store.hex-nail.com/) ,The Kube (https://www.theaugusthaus.com/product-page/pre-order-kubeone) and the Cube ((https://cubevapor.com/)

    Now the Hexnail looks great, has a ton of features and is probably the best of the bunch but do I actually need all this ? would I be better off buying a cheap controller from DHGate?

    I'd love to hear some information from people who use these devices regularly. I will say one thing and that is I won't be considering the Newvape PID due to it's custom I/O configuration, other than that I'd love some advice.
  • LabPong
    3.3k
    I would start with getting one from your local country or make sure you can get service if needed. Sending it in for warranty or repair service is important if you will end up relying on it as your daily D.

    I had to send in my newvape controller after the first 40 days because the LED went out. I was happy with a week turn around for service.

    That said.....I really like using the Auber RDK300. So simple and gives you what you need to set it for your use scenario. I would like to see an Auber with 2+ coil ability too. I'm going to end up getting one of Auber's 20mm coil for my flowerpot use (after I spend $100 for the FP head unit).
  • Cl4ud3
    2.9k
    I would start with getting one from your local country or make sure you can get service if needed.LabPong

    Here lies the problem, in the UK all we have are overpriced boxes from China, so if I'm going that route I'd get a cheap one myself from DHGate. So resigned to having to get from abroad I wanted some info on why you would pick x over y.

    I have held off the Hexnail before due to the hiccups they had been having and almost set on the Auber 300, still anything could swing me one way or the other currently.
  • LabPong
    3.3k
    Here is my theroy on the controllers.....

    Since I had spent a ton of time in my life being a computer geek and dealing with so many things programmable or overly electrical.....I just want my PID to work and keep working. I am tired of things with trivial settings and bling..... This is why I love the Auber 300. I want it to head precisely and keep on doing that with basic settings like time out and then not have to go deep into the other possible settings and tweaks if I do not want to......that is why I like this unit.

    I do not want anything electrical setting/tweaking to get in the way of my vaping. I prefer as close to mechanical operation as possible. This is one aspect I did not at all like with being a beta tester using the MV1 for months on end. Though yes, the PID's are simple electronic controllers.....but I do not need to see fancy star-wars displays or data indicated other than basic heat parameters.

    I like the RDK300 much much more than the generic one NewVape uses...and not because of the connection type.
  • Dapieguy
    19
    I Thought about the hexnail but I'm not sure the price can ever be worth it with how good the auber is.
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    @Cl4ud3 Im in UK also. I just ordered the Auber rdk-300 for the Elev8r. Initially because I thought the angle and design of their 15.8mm coil, not being horizontal, might put less strain on the glass heater.
    But Auber emailed me saying they no longer can offer the 15.8 mm coil.

    So I ordered a coil from dhgate for $30. Saved me $15. The coil is horizontally flat,,but looks suoer lightweight and now Im totally happy with it's design for this use.
    I kept the order for tge rdk-300. It is quite fairly priced, considering there should be no customs attached.

    About £110 total for controller and coil, so not bad. I dont have any real experience except the Vapecode FP one I have (but don't use), and I used the rdk-200 very briefly to try out the Glass Symphony before selling it on.
    Which brings me to my next point: @LabPong and @VapeCritic with the rdk-200 I followed Jojo Monkey's instructions to tune the controller for the GS, which effectively kept temps more stable and consistent I believe, balancing out overshoots and excessive temp drops.

    Watching Bud's Elev8r coil testing- I wonder if there might be a way to change the settings so as to keep the temps more steady during and between hits?
    I reckon there is a chance, unless it is just unavoidable with the Elev8r coil setup. If this usage style stays popular maybe we can consult some knowledable folks who are wise and experienced with these things.
  • LabPong
    3.3k
    Here are the tech manuals for the RDK300

    https://www.auberins.com/images/Manual/RDK-300.pdf

    This supplementary manual gives you all the critical settings to tweak.
    https://www.auberins.com/images/Manual/RDK-300_supplementary.pdf

    I only changed the auto shut off timer to 30 mins. I may mess with the cool off ramp up stuff later...for now I did not find it an issue with the way I use it on the Elev8r.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    HI Claude - as you know, I'm an Auberins fan and LabPong is exactly right that this is one of the few vendors of this stuff that has actual professional tech data and their CS is English speaking and you can reach them by phone (well, you may not want to do that from outside of the USA, but they do answer and they are comprehensible).

    Like LabPong, I have not found any reason to change settings on my Auberins and I hesitate to do so. There is always a trade off....more stability but slower temp skew rate...that kind of thing. Works great out of the box, IMO.

    Now, if you WANT to buy a DHGate controller, you certainly can. I was advised to look for ones that use the Omron E5CC PID assembly. If you look at these boxes, there is a PID assembly, should be an external solid state relay, a power switch or two, and not much else. So, the PID is the guts of it and this Omron seems to be the favored assembly.

    99wd93z6rl190szq.jpeg

    In addition to my Auberins, I have a Greenlight G9 Chinese controller with an Omron E5CC PID. But they completely and utterly fucked up building it to the point of totally screwing up its function. The version of the Omron you want is the E5CC-QX. This one is built to drive an external SSR. There wasn't one in the unit! They soldered the wires to screw down terminals (not kidding, what a butcher job) and the wiring wasn't correct. The think would swing 30-40 degrees.

    ckifo0sngwb9sazm.jpg

    So, my friend Mutten rebuilt it for me, added an SSR (really are cheap parts), fixed up the wiring, and now it works perfectly. Also, there are a set of PID settings for this type of rig well known on the net for using them with Enails. We set the parameters up that way and I use this mostly with my FP99wd93z6rl190szq.jpeg

    Personally, I would stay away from NV's (Vapecode white label with the screw on connector), High Five (they don't provide pin outs but say you can only use their coils...F them), and be careful if looking at Gimodo as some of their controllers are four pin XLRs (you want 5 pin) and don't have a separate ground conductor.

    You mentioned some high cost controllers like Hex-nail. Like those gals a lot, but I don't see the value for the money in these high priced units. Its just PID. I don't care about glob mode, up temping, or any of the other profiles or functions they provide. Its just not needed, not need to drive an enail and not needed to drive anything like the FP. If you really into it and just want one, then way cool. But these are also smaller companies who may/may not be around for a while (the Hex-nail gals were selling some glass on FC and said it was to make their rent....see what I'm saying).

    Me.....Auberins RDK-300 all of the way, IMO.

    Hope this was somewhat helpful.
  • juxt
    2k
    But Auber emailed me saying they no longer can offer the 15.8 mm coil.Alexis

    Did this just happen? I bought the 300a/15.8 coil combo last week to go with a GS i bought...
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    yes this is what they inforned me after I ordered. So you are one of the culprits eh? Grrr lol! Never mind, Im satisfied with the coil I bought and the little saving. Is yours fior Elev8r usage? No need to answer, I shall keep an eye out for more revelation.
  • Gman
    1.3k
    maxvapor has some that ramp up as you hit. I forget what that new style is but it's pretty neat.
  • juxt
    2k

    yes, it is now spread and screwed onto one of my elev8r heaters ... but since the GS and Sub came late last week I haven't used it ;)
  • Tekno
    15
    @Cl4ud3 There is another option from China, you can get this controller from Aliexpress for less than $30.00 USD XMTD9000 series PID auto-tuning Temperature Controller, this controller has Auto-Tuning built in, so you can start with the Settings that Baron23 mentioned above, but then turn on the Auto-tuning feature and it will allow you to customize the PID parameters to your specific draw needs by simply letting it calculate the load you cause every time you draw the vapor from the enail.

    The Challenges would be:
    1. To decide whether or not the included relay that is built-in, is capable to handle the AMP draw of the coil you want to use (it can handle up to 750 watts, but I would only load it up to 500 watts)
    2. if the Relay capabilities are not enough, the controller is capable of driving Solid State Relays (SSR's) which are rather cheap.
    3. To be safe you need an enclosure or something like the one Baron23 showed in his reply.
    4. You will need to learn how to wire it correctly
    5. You would have to be smart when buying components like the enclosure, the SSR and XLR connector to keep you budget numbers down
    6. Learn how to find and enter the starting PID variables and then turn on the Auto-Tuning function
    7. You will have to be patient as the Auto-Tuning needs to learn thru several sessions

    The Advantages would be:
    1. You would get a controller that is tuned to your specific vaping/Air drawing behavior
    2. You would get a controller that should be able to handle any coil configuration and size
    3. You get a very durable controller specially, if you add an external SSR
    4. You would get a controller that keeps temperature as accurately as possible with little variance, specifically since even properly tuned PID controllers are famous for overshooting or undershooting when air or a variable load gets applied to them.

    I am a tinkerer that has a lot of experience with process control, so I see this build, as very straight forward, but others have also offered very good comments/opinions/solutions.

    Tekno Out.
  • Bud
    14.5k
    Wow great tips dudes!

    Claude do all of the controllers you've tried have the push button temp control?

    I've only tried a few different PIDs - NewVape, MiniNail, and the RDK-300 - and I would struggle if I had to describe a difference in performance between them, but I personally much prefer the rotary-dial temp adjustment of the RDK and I wish more of them were made like that. The tiny little up & down arrow buttons on most PIDs drive me nuts :shade:
  • Cl4ud3
    2.9k
    Claude do all of the controllers you've tried have the push button temp control?VapeCritic

    I've only used push button not rotary, for PID's anyway. Lot of love for the Auber everywhere, I do think it will be my best option.
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    if not the best option Claude, there is very little downside it would appear, all in all, next to other options. Maybe you could save a few quid and be equally happy.
    And I am totally with Bud on much preferring the rotary dial.
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    @Cl4ud3 Hiya. My first double post here, so nice to know I wont be getting into trouble even if it had been closer together lol!
    Just wanted to say Claude that my rdk-300 arrived today from Auber. Less than a week door to door with no extra hidden costs on arrival. (Although- I think the current exchange rate may have saved me there- $20 is less than £15 atm, but possibly just over that a while back.) If I was ordering again and thought $20 was over £15 at the time, I may try to inform Auber in the most delicate, subtle way that I will keep my order total to $18, just to be sure, (if you get me!)

    Just wouldn't want anyone to get stung if the excange rate swings- that happened with Dynavap before, once they were carefully made aware they lowered prices site-wide so that overseas customers could keep order totals below $15.
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    Hi everyone. Just an update my Chinese coil arrived yesterday as well to my great surprise, only about 8 days from China. I did what I thought was a good job at stretching the coils apart to make a really good fit around the Elev8r heater.
    I set up the rdk-300 and plugged coil in- nothing! No heat up, just dead. Controller working but coil not.
    I emailed Auber and they were very helpful and responsive. I now need to get the coil checked with a multimeter to find out if:
    A) Coil is dead or B) they sent me the wrong pin layout despite me asking clearly for type B as instructed by Auber.

    I never checked the coil before I reshaped it with pliers, so I have no way to know if it worked to begin with. It was suggested to me on FC by one member that I may have shorted the coil when re-shaping it.

    I assumed it was just a bendable piece of metal with little to go wrong on that end. So I was very disappointed after finally getting a torch free vape on the go as I build up my money for the Digital Herbo.

    Im going to email the Chinese and ask if they think there is a chance they sent me the wrong pin layout. Im hoping it was just a bad coil and they will send a replacement for me to try again, more carefully.
    I don't see how I could return it now after stretching (and scratching) it, but if they insist I could try squashing it back together and see what happens. Worst case I lost $30 but mainly I want the setup running asap and not sute when or how (or if?) I will achieve this now.
    I will report back when I learn more.
  • Cl4ud3
    2.9k
    Is there no way of testing resistance or continuity on the damaged coil you have ? I'm just wondering,I have no clue here myself. Just a thought as the ground will be different on the correct coil.
    It could be a wrong coil anyway and you won't be the first person to have that issue, hope you can get it sorted quickly.

    Edit:- Nevermind I see you don't have a multimeter to test currently :(
  • juxt
    2k
    If the auber sees a short or break it will notify with a screen message ... so of you don't have an error code it's probably something very subtle, or wrong pin config...
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Do you not have a small electronics repair shop near you? They can easily check continuity given the pin outs....should be:

    pins 1 & 2 = AC power, pins 3 & 4 = thermocouple +/-, pin 5 = ground

    When stretching a barrel coil vertically, all it takes is a flat screw driver between the coils and gentle pursuasion. Same if tightening/loosening the coil diameter...slow and gentle is the word.

    Who did you get the coil from.....Vapecode?
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    @Cl4ud3 , @juxt , @Baron23 thanks guys for chiming in. Yes that is the right idea Baron and I do plan to go to a shop where an electrician can test it for me, but I rarely can leave the house so will be next week sometime.
    I did use a screw driver to gently lever the coils apart, I also used pliers and a rag to twist it out slightly to widen the ID. Maybe I was just a little too aggressive?
    Not a Vapecode coik no, this one here:
    https://m.dhgate.com/product/high-quality-e-nail-coil-heater-16mm-20mm/396887034.html

    I asked for type B pin layout. It says 220V on the coil bag, but no mention of the pin layout. They say they will send type A unless you ask for type B, which I did.
    So I dont know how they were dead sure they sent me the type B with no written indication anywhere.
    I hope to get some info on this next week at a shop.

    @juxt yes there is an error code of sorts, but the same as when no coil is attached I think so not really an error code- letter "H". Auber said:

    "-H- is sensor error, which means your coil is bad, coil has different pin assignment or controller is bad.
    Please use a multimeter to check the resistance on your coil. If your coil is 220V/100W, you should get 480 Ohms between pin 1 & 2. You should get around 10 Ohms between pin 3 & 4. Otherwise, your coil is bad or your coil has different pin assignment. Please confirm."

    So I have my instructions anyway. I also messaged the seller so I will see what they say and hopefully soon should see a resolution option(s). Thanks again guys. Im already feeling better about it all today since your reply on FC last night actually Baron, was just super tired yesterday and my anxiety and depression rockets when Im excessively tired and skews things out of proportion.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Probably just a bad coil...happens.

    But wow, isn't it nice to deal with Auber and get some actual tech data?

    Very cool and why I always recommend them although I do understand that they no longer carry 16 mm barrel coils.

    Have a great day, Alexis and I'm sure you will get this sorted.
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    cheers Baron, I hope it is as simple as that. If they agree to simply send out a replacement then bonus 1 will be a $30 saving. But this is not the issue at all, just want to get one working right obviously.
    And yes Auber are a total pleasure to deal with. So responsive every time and always keen to help. They treat their customers very well and have great service, not to mention the quality of the products.
    Kane has been awsome so far. Have a great day yourself Baron.
  • Cl4ud3
    2.9k
    While we are talking coils and DHgate are there recommended stores like you would use for glass ?

    I ordered this week and just searched until I found one that only gave one pin layout option.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    recommended stores like you would use for glass ?Cl4ud3

    For glass....stevenlmz79 (Popular Glass), Sunshine store, clearcleanglass.

    There are many others, but these have been somewhat proven over time.
  • Cl4ud3
    2.9k
    Miscommunication there, are there stores for coils that are recommended.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Stumped there....I buy Auberins and D-nail but I'm certain they are all Chines made.
  • Alexis
    1.2k
    a worthy consideration Claude. I will see how my situation is resolved, hopefully they will try to help and I intend in that case to mention them in the FC thread "Dhgate good and bad sellers list". It doesn't specify glass, so I dont see an issue with us adding coil purchase experiences to that thread.
    I expect we will start to collaborate more on our good and bad coil buying experiences soon, let's get the movement started!
  • kpx420
    310
    Just recieved my PID/ecoil from vapecode...5-6days from order to door.. not bad.. it works so far *crossing fingers*
    https://www.dhgate.com/product/mini-e-nail-coil-with-ti-nail-vapor-wax-dry/237437351.html
    FYI.. Got wit 20mm coil, no nail or carb cap, or silicone container.. Plus dhgate coupon.. 69 bucks for coil n pid
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment