• S car Go
    24
    Karec, thanks for your thoughts. You are right about my statement "Industry Changing" but that is my opinion and that's all it is. I get that the hype surrounding every new device that hits the market seem to make the same claims - how its the best at everything bla, bla, bla. Same with the switch. What else would you expect? Its marketing. However, I base my opinion on facts not emotion or wishful thinking and I am happy to share my opinion with whomever is willing to listen. I also understand how being close to the development of a new product that "pack psychology" can take over the group and blind them from the facts and reality. I get that, and I try to protect myself from it by stepping back and taking an objective look at the situation. I want to give you some facts about the switch that in my opinion sets this thing apart from everything else on the market and this is the basis for my statement about being a industry changer.

    1. The Switch has actually been tested in real life vaping environments to give 153 hits before needing to be recharged. Now let me qualify that by saying these test conditions were in ideal situations such as a new battery pack, oil hits, and the moon and the start were in exactly the right position. But it actually did 153. The electrical guy conservatively said it would do 100 reliably but the actual test showed the overall efficiency was better than expected. So there you have it. 153 hits is an order of magnitude (10X) over many devices on the market. So in my opinion anything that is 5-10 X over the norm is significant.

    2. The Switch seemed to consume less material and produces a more potent reaction for the user. It was not understood exactly why that was happening at first but they think they understand it now. All of the testers made the same comment. There was a lot of questions and speculation as to why it seemed to be true. I know its a hard thing to measure but everyone was reporting it. I am not making the claim that everyone who uses the Switch will have the same experience but I am simply reporting what I whitnessed during testing.

    3. The heating thermal performance of this thing is incredible. It can get up to temp in as fast as 3 seconds. If multiple hits are taken in a row sometimes the reheat time is only a second or maybe two. That is an order of magnitude faster than other devices. Once again 10X the market norm. Its just f..king fast! - no other way to say it. From a thermal point of view this thing is like a formula 1 race car compared to the typical 4 door family car. It heats fast, It cools fast, its just fast all around. That enables the possibility to do things that the market has yet to experience. Who knows maybe it will set a new standard for the industry

    4. Because of the thermal capabilities the switch uses "profiles" that consist of up to 3 phases of temperature control. It phase 1 typically gets to the target temperature as fast as possible then phase 2 can hold the temperature flat or increase or decrease from there. Phase 3 is optional and operates like phase 2. It allows Dabber to program a specific time-temperature relationship (curve called a profile) that produces the desired vaping results. The unit was designed to properly cook any type of material. So you can do a anything from a "low temp slow cook" to a "high temp smoky cook" and everything in between. To my knowledge no other device on the market has this feature. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    5. The Switch has a built in cleaning cycle. Much like a self cleaning oven does. It takes the nail up to 1200 degrees in about 15 seconds where is is visibly incandescent orange hot. Any residues or organic matter in the nail are totally evaporated or turned to ash. Its amazing to watch the white ceramic nail turn from nasty brown to white in 10 seconds. What a useful feature. No torch needed. To my knowledge no other device on the market has this feature. And again please correct me.

    6. Charge time - 1 hour. WOW. And pass thru charging - charging while being operated. Not so ground breaking but good performance none the less.

    7. The Switch does all forms of material well. Apparently that is a big advantage. The aerobic feature and the way the vapor is preserved and then combines with the air stream after significant cooling produces a more desirable experience. I was unaware that there not many devices on the market that were capable of dual material vaporization. I had no idea that was the case being an old timer and out of the market for decades. I can attest it does my medicine better than I have ever experienced previously. But understand I'm old and things have dramatically changed over the years. So it seems to be an all in one device. So based on what I have learned from the pros there are not many that can compete in this arena. Just what I have heard - you guys would know better than I.


    Anyway "enough enough" she cried.

    I hope you get a chance to try one and see for yourself.
  • MAbud
    426


    thank you for taking the time to be here and respond at the level you do. You are adding a ton of valuable insights to this thread and forum
  • VapeCritic
    6.2k
    Hey guys sorry for the delay with this one, I just got my Switch delivered the other day but they told me they found a bug and need to re-flash my firmware before I use it, so I'd estimate maybe another week or so before I'll have some first impressions and I can show it on live stream :ok:
  • VapeCritic
    6.2k

    Hey thanks for posting here it is very much appreciated!

    Not to mention interesting and insightful :up: :cool:
  • VapeCritic
    6.2k
    BTW if anybody orders this in the meantime Dr Dabber gave me a promo code TVC15 for 15% off sitewide, works for the Switch :ok:
  • Trix
    119
    Awesome! That definitely helps, really interested on your feedback on this one. So much hype.
  • VapeCritic
    6.2k

    Hey quick question because everything you're saying makes sense and induction heaters do certainly seem to have quite a number of advantages.

    Is one of the main hurdles with induction heating the physical size of the vaporizer? I'm asking because I've only seen two vapes use induction, the Loto Labs thing and the Switch, but both struck me as being fairly large units when I first took them out of the box.

    I actually bought a cheap induction heater to mess around with when trying to make my own heater, but the one I bought was too big for me to do anything with inside of a vape.

    I'm just wondering if this is a limitation of induction, that there's just too many components and you need the space, or if smaller induction heaters are available but they're more expensive? Just curious and thanks again for your insight!
  • Cannabliss420
    31
    @VapeCritic thanks for code. I just ordered switch and saved 60 bucks. Great stream yesterday by the way.
  • S car Go
    24


    The short answer to your question "Is one of the main hurdles with induction heating the physical size of the vaporizer?" is "maybe". So there is no need to read any more of my response. But in reality its difficult to answer your question with yes or no. Fundamentally your question has a complicated answer because there are so many decisions that go into the design of an induction heating system.

    During the design and engineering of anything you are constantly making a series of choices based on trade-offs between the desirable, the undesirable, the perfect, the practical, the possible from the impossible. So while juggling options you hopefully make the best compromise of all options and produce a wildly successful product.

    The choices for this type of product and from a pure heating source point of view present a a few options. Flame or fuel powered, mechanical friction, electrical resistive heating sometimes called ohmic or joule heating which is the class that induction heating falls into. So to answer your question about Induction compared to the typical resistive heating that most all the products use here are the trade-off's between the two.

    Resistive heating is as simple as it gets. A source of current, a switch (optional) and a resistive heating element. Can't get much simpler or more reliable than that. The problems come in when you add connectors (battery & heating element) into the implementation. Its a fact that the fewer components in a system the more reliable the system will be. Fewer is better - always! The result is that resistive heating can be really reliable. Resistive heaters tend to be "leaky". By that I mean that they tend to leak heat into surrounding structures necessary for mechanical support or electrical connections. All this lost heat reduce the overall efficiency of the system.

    If you add energy control into the mix now you add more components and battery polarity may suddenly become very important. The basic battery, switch, heating element system is not sensitive to polarity sop no problem there. However some products use a solid state switch (FET) to control the battery current because it is high enough that a small switch cannot handle it. So they use a small switch to control a big FET switch that can handle the current. Reliability just went down a bit.

    Now if you add features like power or temperature regulation into the list, then the complication increases and reliability drops a bit more. And now if you are talking about a feedback type of regulating controller which requires more parts and the reliability drops even more. Many of the products on the market today have active temperature feedback control which is the most complicated and expensive option there is. It also requires a more exotic interface so the user can set and read the temperature. All of this complication adds cost with the benefit of greater precision which makes for a nice repeatable cook using less power which is what everybody is looking for. So in this case the trade-off is reliability and cost against features and performance. I think you all understand the dancing while juggling act that engineering a product requires. In fact, I see you going through it yourself trying to build your own vape. I think that's a great thread exposing people to what types of choices must be made to create a successful product. I smile when I read it. You are a real smart dude.

    Sorry for the long dissertation but its the basis for the answer to your question. So the trade-off of using induction or resistive heating results in the just a few trade-off's.

    1. The induction system components are larger because induction requires a capacitor and coil are larger than the resistive coils. The switching circuitry is of similar size so not much trade-off there however the components are more expensive. So to sum it up I think the volume required by an induction heater verses a resistive heater with same control functions is about 4:1 Efficiency is similar between the two taking to account all the leakage associated with the resistive system.

    2. The induction offers many advantages over the resistive option previously enumerated in a prior post.

    3. Disadvantages of induction include the difficulty of power control because induction systems can be wildly unstable by nature. The $8 eBay induction board that I think you have played with is difficult to control and it does not want to self start to name just a few issues. That topology is not the optimal solution for small size. Cost yes, control no, size no, efficiency no. The result is that a proper design is necessary to control power to the desired accuracy which is what it is all about. The most important point I am trying to make here is that using the induction heater it all gets down to energy control and the performance and advantages that result from it. Is it better than resistive heating? We think so. Does it cost more - we know so. Does it make a better product - we think so.

    So I sum it all up by saying that overall induction heating is more expensive in terms of cost and real-estate but it also has some really nice advantages which must be considered as well. The Switch has been brought to market using these advantages and to show what is possible. Time will show how the market responds and if users consider it a success or not.

    I will be very interested to see your reaction when you get a chance to use one. The Switch is different in many ways to the traditional e-bong and I would recommend that you fully understand it fully before operating it.

    Good luck on the build your own vape project I will be watching that one closely.
  • Cmatz
    142
    This is a quote from another forum in regards to vaping flower with the Switch:

    "I want to make this very clear, if you like your Mighty or Flowermate or anything on this site that vapes dry herbs and want similar vapor and abv, this isn’t the unit. When I first got it I had to go back to Dabber and ask them why we’re burning all the weed because of the taste. It took a few conversations with their engineer and a lot of sessions where I played with the leftovers to get my old mind wrapped around it not burning. I had to go look up pyrolysis and ask my industry friends if it was bullshit. And I had other seasoned vaporists check it out with me. There’s not a profile on the machine that vapes dry herbs like I’m used to and I don’t use it for that except to dick around with the pyrolysis. It tastes like smoke to me, but the proof is in the leftovers. Approach this one with an open mind."

    @VapeCritic or anyone else with a unit, could you confirm, deny, or explain this oddity. (I already wikied it but not confident this is going to be a good flower vape)
  • Cmatz
    142
    Essentially pyrosis allows you to reduce boiling points (or in this case combustion) by changing the ATM (atmospheric pressure). So you can get the same chemical reaction, but without the same high temps.

    If you're thinking pressure cooker, you've got the right idea.

    My question is, if boiling points are reduced for compounds like THC, THC-V, and CBD are lowered, how does that impact carcinogens?

    Also I struggle with understanding how that unit changes the pressure inside the unit???
  • S car Go
    24
    Where is it stated that the unit changes the atmospheric pressure?
    Did you read somewhere that the Switch is able to reduce the boiling points for compounds like THC, THC-V, and CBD ?

    I think you are confusing pyrolysis with pyrosis.

    The Switch allows the pyrolysis to occur in a low or no oxygen environment thereby reducing chemical reactions with the oxygen molecules which may spoil some of the desired compounds. The remains of the payload may be charred but they are not oxidized or combusted. No combustion has taken place. The temperature can be adjusted so there is no charring if that is what you are after. There will be a lot of un-released compounds in the ABV but again no charring if that is your goal. The Switch allows you to more thoroughly release the compounds of interest without combustion than is otherwise possible using most other units on the market.

    Your quote from the other site is one mans opinion. There have been many other people who are very pleased with the flower performance of the Switch.
  • Cmatz
    142
    According to wiki... I know. Its wiki....

    Pyrolysis is a thermal decomposition of materials at elevated temperatures in an inert atmosphere such as a vacuum gas. It involves the change of chemical composition and is irreversible.

    Pyrosis is heartburn my friend....

    Pressure cooker is one direction, vacuum is the other direction. Simply put changing the ATMs does change the boiling points.

    Also the original comment I was referring to, was not my post, but a users post who is definitely promoting Dr Dabber.

    If he's claiming pyrolsis, how does this occur without a change in ATMs? Thus my confusion....

    Can anyone explain pyrolysis and how this works with this unit?
  • S car Go
    24
    Sorry I missunderstood your statement about understanding how the Switch changes pressure inside the unit.

    Pyrolysis happens every time you light up a joint. It can happen at atmospheric pressure.
  • VapeCritic
    6.2k
    Just got mine back today, will fire it up tonight :up:

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  • VapeCritic
    6.2k

    Thanks very much for your thorough reply and explanation! :ok:
  • S car Go
    24
    If u have any issues or questions contact me or dabber.
  • juxt
    790
    So reviewers are getting them already? Any word when the pre orders will ship?
  • jayhof
    27
    Just got mine back today, will fire it up tonight :up:VapeCritic

    Oh, my that switch is really big. I can't wait for your review just to confirm that you can use dry flower in the switch right? Or is it only for concentrates like the Loto Labs thing?
  • S car Go
    24
    It does both.
  • Cmatz
    142
    Being the skeptic I am, I doubt its ability to create quality vapor from flower, even after seeing videos of it vaping flower.

    I'm anxious to see a legit review for it.
  • Cannabliss420
    31
    Any videos of it vaping flower yet ? All I see is concentrate and cleaning mode videos on YouTube.
  • Cmatz
    142
    If it works that well with flower AND has great flavor, this thing would be a game changer. Those clouds look thick.
  • Cannabliss420
    31
    Awesome thank you, I can't wait. I preordered sunday. Any dates on shipments yet?
  • VapeCritic
    6.2k
    Jeez louise, I've been so busy I haven't had a chance to set this puppy up yet, this would actually be the perfect thing to setup and use for the first time on live stream!

    I think that's what I'll do, save it for the stream on Saturday, probably starting around 5pm ET :up:

    I guess that's being pretty optimistic that my channel isn't deleted by then :lol:
  • BobCat
    394
    :lol: Try heating a VapCap with it during the stream please.
  • Magicman
    839
    This label might as well say "user beware" if current product launches from this region are taken into account. The device also is not even close to portable sized compared to the Vape Critic Buds' hands.07zpd24z77g71bhz.jpg
  • BobCat
    394
    Yeah N.Korea has moved their stockpile to China after several launch failures, but I have faith in @VapeCritic on this week's stream.
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  • MMongo
    215
    Holy crap that thing is enormous.
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