• Bud
    14.5k
    I just stumbled across this IG post and it got me thinkin :chin:

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BkDadCxgG4b/

    I'm not sure why but I've had it in in my head that distillate is one of the cleanest and purest concentrates, have I been playing myself??

    Caption: "This is the starting product your distillate carts are made from - One of the many reasons I don’t fuck with distillate! Processors will buy the cheapest priced Crude BHO they can find to refine into distillate which is then flavored with terpenes that aren’t even from actual cannabis plants"

  • Baron23
    9.9k
    So, to understand fractional distillation means understanding that this is a secondary process after solvent extraction.

    Now, I have seen in vids the goo that comes out of the stacks when they solvent extract and it has always looked more like tan colored foamy stuff than that bucket of excrement.

    I have no idea where in the country this IG poster was talking about, but one of our processors here that does distillates (for carts and syringes and its of very nice quality) told me that they do indeed add back terps after distillation and that they are the terps that came out of the plant itself....but, no details and I don't know how they can do that.

    And they don't use cheap BHO, they grow and extract themselves.

    I do know that they use some "proprietary" mix of hydrocarbon solvents and the impression they gave me is that they maintain the terps in the goo and separate them out during distillation and then add them back.

    But, if you aren't working in the lab itself, you really don't know squat.

    Cheers
  • Rockytdogg
    1.5k
    Processors will buy the cheapest priced Crude BHO they can find to refine into distillate which is then flavored with terpenes that aren’t even from actual cannabis plants"VapeCritic

    Not the medical dispensaries in Massachusetts... “Distillate” is a pretty generic term.
  • juxt
    2k

    Agreed on everything you said, and in general I've said before it's an art & science. It really does depend on how good they are, how good their equipment is, and of course the materials ;) Also, you don't know their process unless you're in their lab, but you can test their results.


    Those sludge buckets are what makes me worry about the people creating these products and the testing processes that are (or aren't) used to protect folks. Starting with that material I'd be worried about pesticides and all kinds of crap.

    If their initial distillation process to create the extract sufficiently maintains the terps, then a sufficiently constructed fractional rig can capture the terps which boil off at lower temps and recapture them just as well as the other components. Sometimes this means a really complex rig that can capture maybe 15 variant temps (probably the biggest I've seen but these weren't made for low temp) or sometimes it means running the payload through multiple times.

    I saw a vid of some company selling their closed loop equipment, and they used vacuum and were able to achieve lower temps for every extraction which saved more of the component material which was then run through distillation. I wanted it bad but the small unit was like 5500 or something and didn't include the distillation at all. I think their end to end low volume setup was over 12k, which way turned me off.

    I hope the new markets make it so good quality starting product is run through good quality process and makes it available for everyone. Of all the different methods I've tested in the past year distillate end product is at the top of the list.
  • artv4nd3l4y
    948
    +1 for Rosin. Yeah distillate is just another technology to extract, the source material is always of greater concern. There are some advantages with distillate, mainly purity, but it doesn't do anything to remove pesticides as Juxt mentioned. From the chemist, once pesticides are in concentrates, they can't be removed.

    Distillate sounds a lot like Marlboro if you ask me. As others are mentioning though not all distillate is made out of crap in more regulated states, but unfortunately the end user may not be much the wiser when it's made out of garbage which is why it's good to bring this up. Make sure to ask where your distillate is coming from, not to say you will get an honest answer, but it's better than not asking at all...
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    From the chemist, once pesticides are in concentrates, they can't be removed.artv4nd3l4y

    Not sure I can support this statement. If the boiling points of the pesticide are different enough from what you are trying to keep (THC, terps, flavinoids maybe?), you absolutely should be able to separate them. Depends on accuracy and precision of your fractional distillation rig.
  • artv4nd3l4y
    948


    Permetherin is a good example of a pesticide compound whose polarity closely resembles THC, and hence it can't be removed easily. Certain pesticides like myclobutanil can be removed entirely, although I can't support putting pesticides in them in the first place.
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    I was under the impression that most "distialte" was super critical co2 extraction am i wrong?? I used to blast mad oil back in the day but if i knew there were machines like that ohhhhh boyyyyyy@VapeCritic
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    I say most because your picture changes things lol
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    I was under the impression that most "distialte" was super critical co2 extraction am i wrong?Tyedyesamuraiguy

    Hiya - Yes, you are wrong. Two entirely different processes. One uses a solvent (mostly hydrocarbon stuff like butane) and then puts it through a fractional distillation rig. The other uses high pressure, very cold CO2 as the solvent itself.

    Cheers
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    But that is one way of making it?
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    But that is one way of making it?Tyedyesamuraiguy

    I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. I may be a bit slow this morning! LOL
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    Super critical is still a way to make distillate? @Baron23
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    No, let me try again.

    Super critical CO2 is used as the solvent to extract the cannibinoids and it does indeed take some terps, fats, lipids along for the ride. I rather like CO2 extracted oil in carts I have been getting.

    BHO = butane hash oil and is generally used to describe any type of hydrocarbon solvent extraction and many places use a proprietary blend of butane, propane, whatever the chemist decides is best.

    Fractional distillation is used AFTER extraction and has NOTHING to do with extracting the oil from the plant material. After extraction the product is vaporized (as in boiled off) and goes through multiple condensing stations, each at a specific temperature, in order to SEPARATELY condense out various compounds based on their boiling point. It can be used to extract pretty much only THC from the rest if that's what you are after....or separate out THC and terps and add the terps back in after discarding say plant fats and lipids.

    What a fractional distillation rig is capable of is fully dependent on how many condensing stations you have and the precision of your temperature control in each....that, and it depends on various compounds have different boiling points in order to work.

    Have you ever seen a crude oil cracking tower at a refinery? Fractional distillation at work there.

    Here's more on it if interested:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=fractional+distillation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    @Baron23 i dont think we are understanding each other. Super critical extraction end result is called distillate? And these other methods produce distillate. So at the end of either process the product is distillate?
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Super critical extraction end result is called distillate?Tyedyesamuraiguy

    What I'm trying to tell you is that the above statement is WRONG.

    Distillate...no matter what the counter help in your local dispensary calls the stuff they are selling....is specifically the result of fractional distillation and NOT CO2 extraction. Extract (pick your method) then if you want fractionally distill. Two completely separate processes.

    If your dispensary (or drug dealer! haha) are calling CO2 extraction, with no further processing, distillate then they don't know what they are talking about.

    I'm sorry, but I don't know how to explain it better so I'm done with it. Best of luck.
  • juxt
    2k
    Here is the easy version.
    Cannabinoids are what medicate you in cannabis. You want to get those out, called 'extracting'.
    You can use solvent based extraction "Butane" "CO2" "Ethanol" "Water", etc to produce 'concentrate'
    You can then distill concentrate to make 'distillate'

    @Baron23 if you like the CO2, it has to be because they've added terps back. It's the blandest no taste thing I've ever tried, personally ;)
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Baron23 if you like the CO2, it has to be because they've added terps back. It's the blandest no taste thing I've ever tried, personally ;)juxt

    Actually, my experience with the new brands in MD is just the opposite. The BHO/Distillation has little to no taste while the CO2 is quite good. Perhaps they add them back in, but no external adulterants are allowed unless noted on the label so I don't think they are using food material terps and I don't know how they would capture MJ terps during CO2 extraction in order to be able to add them back in.
  • juxt
    2k

    Hrm, keep me informed if you find out more there. I've been told CO2 kills terpes because of the process, and the only stuff I've seen is a really dark liquid that spreads out a dark greenish brown. Maybe a new process though, stuff changin ;)
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Hi mate - yeah, I had the chance to meet some folks from the company that makes the Rythm carts in MD (I think its Chesapeake Alternatives in Queen Anne Co. on the eastern shore) and can only relay what they have told me.

    The product isn't really dark and has no green in it whatsoever. It is darker than Liberty to use BHO/fractional distillation. The Liberty is very lightly colored while the CO2 is...well, here is an article with a pic of it:

    http://www.gentlemantoker.com/2018/02/rythm-lemonhead-og-vape-cartridge/

    The Lemon Head was the first cart I got....it was very nice. The carts are CCell.

    Oh, I have some pics of Rythm product right here...this is the Lemon Head cart I first got

    5374sd9sold59646.jpg

    This is their "terp nectar" which they directly told me is the same exact product that they put into carts. Its pretty tasty but impossible to handle. Don't see a lot of this type product for sale in a jar anymore...its a PIA. Syringes or carts for this stuff only.

    9gfde8a0r6ra5ztn.jpeg
  • AnVom
    167
    I need a little help. My buddy gets these and I have been hesitant to buy them. He showed me a package and I got pretty sketched out. Have any of you seen or tried these?

    ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd29jlv5g6rsjhb.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbs%2Fmd%2F315f870ece6171213c5af6fbedce0968f3db1f18.jpg&f=1
    ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd29jlv5g6rsjhb.cloudfront.net%2Fimages%2Fthumbs%2Fmd%2Fd33da2a13a166fd59af7b88ca02dcc3ce6b9be03.jpg&f=1
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Sorry, I'm not familiar with that brand (from CA, perhaps?).

    It says lab tested but if they are CA and are from prior to 1 Jul, I'm not sure what is tested.

    Is there a testing label on them?

    Also, I can't see the cart in the pic clear enough to see its general shape and if it appears to be a ceramic heater cart.

    Sorry, just dunno.
  • Gman
    1.3k
    Let me help clear some things up despite not reading every word so far. Maybe someone already posted all this, sorry :)

    Extraction is separating the lipids/waxes and general cannabinoids from the plant matter. Depending on he extraction type (rosin, CO2, BHO, Alcohol) you will get more or less "stuff" out. Most of it is lipids of some sort since these are all plant gland cells.

    Not all of the above extractions are something you want to vape/smoke etc. . Some you can just drop in a wax pen and go to town, like rosin or BHO that's been properly purged. But CO2, some BHO/PHO and Alcohol extractions pull out more than you want.

    So what do you do with the extractions that pull too much extra plan matter? You can do multiple things.

    Distillation: This is a way to separate all the different compounds that have different evaporating temperatures. This is useful for real junk like the slop bud posted, or heavy CO2 extractions. They can then put them back together and throw out the junk. Often they reclaim terps during the distillation to re-add at the end. Often, with bad process and equipment, they are forced to just add in "fake" terps form other sources. The molecular structure of these is debatable.

    Winterization/deWaxing: This is a way to remove the left over lipid cells after taking all the THC and other cannabinoids out. This isn't necessary unless you want the cleanest product possible, like for cart pen coils that will gunk up quickly with non de waxed product.

    edit: Often CO2 is claimed as non solvent extraction yet 99% of the time there is secondary winterization with alcohol and often some distillation as well.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Let me help clear some things up despite not reading every word so farGman

    hahaha.....you cleared up stuff? Sorry mate, but read the thread before telling us you are going to school us, yeah. LOL
  • Gman
    1.3k
    Sorry, I just didn't see where you mention the CO2 is processed again with alcohol. They do lie about it because it's illegal in most places but it's done 100%. You'd have to show me the lab this guy is doing his CO2 in where it's not being solvent washed after. Or point to me where you mention this and I'll own my mistake :)

    Very few labs do super critical (vape pen viable) CO2 extraction because of the crappy yield.

    Looks like even the super critical people have to winterize lol

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbn9-JQgw28
  • AnVom
    167
    I don't know where the carts come from, he said they are ceramic tanks. The package on all of the types says 80-85% THC lab tested, but there aren't any labels it's directly on the packaging. I just wanna know if he's getting ripped off/potentially harmed ($60 a cart)
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    brother, was just yanking your chain. LOL. Playing the dozens, if that old phrase is familiar.

    Yes, we have one CO2 house and there stuff is pretty damn good and tasty. I did ask them if they distilled after extraction and they replied in the negative. Can’t remeber if I asked about winterization but feel they surely do or it would immediately clog the ceramic in their carts.

    That doesn’t bother me a bit in a med legal state as these people can afford the high end purge equipment, have chemists on staff, and have to have all of their products tested.

    I have seen where in other states there has been some level of scandal about testing, differing results, un-reproducible results, conflict of interest. Like that. Haven't heard a word of that in my state, but it’s early days yet.

    Have a great 4th. Personally, I’m thankful everyday that I’m an American.

    Cheers
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    for a gram cart, no I don’t think you are being ripped off but that REALLY depends where you are. E.g., CA just destroyed $350M of product produced before the new refs went into effect. They were giving it away,I understand.

    Ceramic is good. Neither of us know it provence so there is no telling about adulterants and the like.

    Good chance they won’t kill you. If it was me, I’d put them on a box and see what I thought
  • AnVom
    167
    well it's the buckeye state so if it isn't being ripped off elsewhere then it's a deal here lol. Thanks for the encouragement
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment