• majmun
    1
    [TLDR at the bottom]

    My first experiences vaping were with MFLB and original Pax. Eventually, I got tired of the odor and degenerate feeling from smoking publicly, so I bought a classic Volcano over 5 years ago after stumbling on the Vape Critic youtube page. That led me to cut off smoking almost entirely, since it became the most efficient thing to use along with being discreet. I ended up getting a Crafty later on, which was okay, but definitely wasn't as easy as the Volcano in terms of cleaning due to the nooks & crannies along with sacrificing a screen whenever it needed cleaning. I sent both units to Storz & Bickel at the end of their warranties (both didn't seem to heat as high as they used to & the Crafty chamber was annoyingly scratched from the times we removed the bottom screens) and they ended up sending me new ones for both. I haven't used them since they sent them back.

    I recently got a NYS medical card and the place I tried has concentrate for vaping, oral solution, capsules, and powders (all of which seem dumb expensive). I bought a 1ml 19:1 (THC:CBD) ratio of "bulk" vaping oil and the ingredients say "Cannabis oil and medium-chain triglycerides (MCT)." This ends up being 475mg THC, 25mg CBD, and 500mg of whatever MCT is. As far as I know, 19:1 and 6:1 ratios seem the closest to smoking/vaping actual bud, with 1:1 and flipped ratios favoring CBD not seeming like bud at all. However, I don't really have any experience to know anything for sure. One of my first purchases was a pack of vape cartridges containing .2ml of different oil ratios in each cartridge.

    These cartridges are okay for the first few uses, but they eventually start to leak and waste an unreasonably expensive product. I used a cartridge one night, put it away, and the next day saw that it leaked heavy into the plastic bottom cover for the cartridge. I got to exchange that particular one, but I wish I could've exchanged or returned the others as well, since they've started to leak too. Sadly, the return period was over. My method for using them is to
    • take the cartridges out of their container
    • take the plastic caps off the mouthpiece and screw-in end
    • do a soft dry pull from the cartridge
    • attach it to the battery
    • soft 2-3 second pull
    • wait 30-60 seconds
    • puff again or take it off
    • put plastic pieces back on top and bottom
    • put away, keeping the cartridge vials vertical so the oil doesn't stick to the side walls
    I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I don't want to buy pre-filled anymore due to leaks (and the whole weird medical program being overall way too pricey to be testing product from every dispensary).

    This brings me to the bulk oil purchase. They tried to sell me a refillable vaporizer for around $40, but I've tried those things years ago and was never a fan (plus I don't understand voltage, current, ohms, mods, etc). I let them know I would try to use what I have. I was going to purchase an easy valve starter kit to start fresh, along with extra liquid pads, to use this oil. It comes with a syringe, so it should be easy to drop onto the pads. However, I looked all over the internet and wasn't able to find any quality sources on using the volcano with liquids. The concentrate I have looks pretty thick (in fact, they repeated pretty often how thick and concentrated their products were, I guess to make up for how small their quantities are), especially in comparison to e-juice, but I really don't want to damage a fresh unit if it drips into the heater/fan.

    I tried using searching google and youtube, with no quality videos/websites describing how to use the volcano without herbs. I tried looking at the Storz & Bickel website, but their video on drip pads is them dropping water onto them. I used the search on this forum, but most people seem to use liquid pads as spacers in their vapes, so they can use less herb. In NYS, we can't get plants, which sucks. It really sucks. The products don't even have labels saying what strains were used. Anyways, as far as I'm aware, concentrates need to have the volcano set to a 9, so dripping on top of herbs like blue lotus, spearmint, chamomile, or whatever else sounds like a solid way to burn the plant material.

    [TLDR] I have a volcano. Should I invest over $100 into an easy valve set and some liquid/drip pads to use oil that is half cannabis & half MCT. Potential worries are:
    • dripping down through the pad before it has the chance to vaporize
    • being wasteful of the oil (like sticking to the pad and not vaporizing whatsoever)
    The other option would be to order a KandyPens Crystal since that is #1 rated on vapecritic. The quartz bucket thing seems like I would just drop some oil in there, close it, and vape it until everything's gone, with no need to worry about burning wicks or direct contact with coils. No waste, lots of efficiency, and hopefully no need to replace the the atomizers more than a few times a year. The Volcano is one of my favorite purchases of all time; I'm just not sure it will be as useful as something designed for oil specifically.

    Thank you for reading this and I'm sorry for writing up such a long piece. Hopefully I'll get some insight on this concentrate stuff. I'm happy to join the forum and I'm looking forward to learning. Thanks again!
  • Baron23
    7.9k
    Should I invest over $100 into an easy valve set and some liquid/drip pads to use oil that is half cannabis & half MCTmajmun

    I would definitely NOT put this shit in my Volcano and to be very frank, I would not vape crap with MCT as a cutting agent. Actually, I won't use any carts or 'trates with cutting agents that are not cannabis derived terps at most.

    Ive gotten a bit stringent about this crap lately. Distilled BHO and sup crit CO2 extraction when done right eliminate the need for these crappy cutting agents in carts, etc.

    I hope you guys get full rec cause your NY med program is a bit of a joke, no?

    Got to love Cuomo...only thing...the ONLY thing that moved his ass off the dime on MJ was a lady with the name of Cynthia Nixon. Its sad.

    If getting bulk in a syringe or the like...and if you don't mind MCT...then yes, refillable carts on a box mod are probably the best way for you to go. CCell brand cart hdwr is highly recommended. Box mods are easy...hell, we stoners can figure them out, yeah? haha
  • Startedat52
    1k
    MCT oil should be illegal to vape or smoke! Just fine orally however.
  • EconMan
    2.7k


    No. The volcano is a horrible choice for vaping concentrates. It will dirty up your device, your bags, all of it..... yuk! :vomit:

    Pick up a Firefly2.:love: or a Puffco Peak. If on a budget, pick up a used one.

    IMO, it is the best pipe/pen vape there is for concentrates. I've used the Crystal, and although it is better than the Galaxy, I find it lacking taste and smoothness wise. And it is a PITA to load.

    And lastly, I do agree with all of Baron's words. And yes, Nixon gets that credit. :)
  • majmun
    1
    (Questions at the bottom, thank you all!)

    I've looked into MCT a bit more. I've found a user called 'steelrollin' on reddit and he's the top post on this page (but he is also selling product, so there's incentive for him to prove that they are safe):
    https://old.reddit.com/r/CBD/comments/7munky/cbdistillery_using_mct_oil_as_vape_oil/
    Out of all the stuff online, he cited the most studies, but I'm not really sure what to make of it. They say it's safe, others say its not safe (an article on Leafly is negative on it). MCT, PG, VG, PEG400, etc. all are used by people vaping e-juice, so could it really be that bad? In my experience, I've tried e-juice twice (once with someone's wick atomizer to make clouds like a hookah and another with a Juul), with both times burning my throat worse then smoking. For whatever reason, smoking a joint or blunt never burned/dried my throat like vaping; smoking experiences were mostly good, tho most likely not healthy longterm. E-juice also messed with my stomach pretty heavy. I thought these negative effects were from very high temperatures and the nicotine, but now I'm wondering if it was the cutting agents. I'm not a scientist though.

    I went to a local shop today to ask about mods and how they work. From what I could tell: lower V, lower temp, small clouds; higher V, higher temp, big clouds. On my current variable vape (2.6, 3.2, 3.8V) I strictly use the 2.6 setting. These kind of vapes remind me of the MFLB experience where burning is dependent on how long you press the battery in, though they seem to get way hotter. He pointed out regular vaping is done using a wick and that there will always be some juice lost it. For concentrates, he said someone would probably use a setup where you drop wax directly onto a ceramic coil instead of relying on a saturated wick. I asked about kandypens, firefly2, and puffco, but he never heard of them. He owns a volcano and pax 3. He doesn't dab, but let his friends used his pax and that's what he recommended for oils. He said my volcano would probably be my best bet to try out before spending money elsewhere. Since it's the best herbal vaporizer on the market, he didn't see why it wouldn't be great for oil. Again, he never uses concentrate in his, so I'm still unsure.

    Ideally, I'd want the lowest temp possible to use up all of my product. Way back when, I'd use ~.5g and cycle from 5.5-6-6.5-7 to make the buds as yellow (or not-green) as possible, even though the bags got nasty quick. In my experience, 7.5-8 was strictly for bad days when only ABV was available. Each session was just a turn of the dial, so I'd pack the chamber maybe 2 or 3 times a week. Depending on when I last used it, I'd shake or stir the chamber. If I used it hours ago or even a day before, a stir wasn't necessary. It was extremely efficient in terms of feels and especially with overall money spent per year. With just the manual, I would've probably tried vaping it at my preferred flower temperatures.

    When people dab on rigs, I read that it is around 700F on a titanium nail. Vape mods get pretty up there as well I think. I don't really understand why people need such high heat when herbs don't require anywhere near that much for vaporization. Wouldn't that be combusting the oil instead of vaping it? I'm wondering if the max 446F on a volcano would vaporize the cannabis oil & MCT completely, partially, or melt it more than anything.

    I've looked at my cartridges and they're CCell. They look exactly like these as far as I can tell with white ceramic mouthpiece and are .5ml sized:
    https://www.vapepartsmart.com/ccell-th2-oil-cartridge/
    On their website and leafly, they're given a lot of praise for being leak proof. I was a bit confused with mine, because for the first 3, they all ended up leaking out the bottom at different rates. The replacement one I got doesn't have any leaks so far, so I figured when it gets low, I'll unscrew the top and refill it a bit with the bulk oil I have and look around for some shops that have these in stock instead of ordering online. Two of my almost-done carts need to lean a long while to let the oil pool up at a corner & absorb into cotton to get a short puff before they dry and need to lean again.

    I’ve attached a photo of where the leaks happened for me. At C, there's a tiny hole and a same sized hole is also on the opposite side. These spots only leaked a few times on one cartridge and then stopped, so I’m not sure what the deal was, but it didn’t seem like a big problem. At point B, it seems like all of them end up leaking beneath that o-ring or whatever that thing is. I’m thinking maybe it’s the bottom of the ceramic? Point A is where one of my cartridges is leaking and that seems like the worst of them all because it leaks onto the battery if left on after puffing. After putting away, it fills up again. At point B, it sort of pools up, but never actually leaks onto anything as far as I can tell, so it seems like it pools up once and stays (still wastes oil). None are as bad as the cart I had to return and they came with a piece of paper saying "minor leakage ... is normal." I mean, which part is minor leakage normal from and how much is minor?

    I got a few questions to close up another long post:
    • Any tips on using CCell carts and what to do if they leak or when I finish one off? Should they be filled once then thrown away or can they be recycled?
    • What's with the super high temps when dabbing concentrates or vaping in general in comparison to vaping flower? That doesn't sound healthy for the throat, unless there some waterpipe attachment?
    • Are there any charts online showing when cannabis oil vaporizes at (I've seen charts with scales showing which chemicals are released by vaping buds at various temps)? Same question for MCT, PG, terpenes, etc.
    • In a worst case scenario, is it wise to ingest this oil instead of vaping it because of the MCT? The oral solution I have is 87.5mg THC, 525mg CBD, & rest of it MCT in a 12.5 fl oz. I would just dump the bulk oil (475mg THC, 25mg CBD, 500mg MCT) in the bottle and stir. I can't return the bulk oil anymore, so I figured why not use it as an edible thing going off of what @Startedat52 said about it being fine orally.
    • Another dispensary has excipient free oil, $72 for .375g for indica and hybrid (but with the same thc/cbd ratios?). Is it possible to purchase terpenes legally and mix them in to dilute the oil? They seem to be in prefilled cartridges, so I’m not sure I can add anything and stir well. Maybe I can just add to the top as to avoid wasting the last bits of oil when running low and to avoid dry burning?

    I was going to rant about NJ and NY cannabis laws and the medical system, but I'll save that negativity for another day. My posts are way too long. Thank you for your replies!
    Attachment
    ccell-th2-cartridge-atomizer-bottom (210K)
  • Baron23
    7.9k
    MCT, PG, VG, PEG400, etc. all are used by people vaping e-juice, so could it really be that bad?majmun

    Yes it can be that bad. Are you kidding...people still smoke cigarettes with the complete and utter knowledge that its killing them. PG/VG....fuck, for many folks that's just way down the line of dangerous substances but that doesn't mean that they are not damaging and IMO they are ABSOLUTELY NOT needed to make good carts.
  • majmun
    1

    When I figure out what to do with what I already have, I'm definitely going to try the excipient free stuff. I paid so much for medical certification that I don't want to give up trying to find something solid.

    Today I went to a neighborhood store where they were selling 'bud' which is hemp as far as I can tell. It came in a few flavor names that resembled popular strains on leafly. I'm not sure how they flavor them, but maybe they were sprayed with terpenes when they were being dried? Maybe each hemp plant has different flavor just like THC strains do. I really miss the taste of flower, smoked or vaped, so this is a pretty cool find. I'll probably try out the hemp bud (1/4oz for $50, this market is an expensive game) and top them off with the measuring needle tool that comes with the oils.

    My plan is to online order a volcano starter set, just for the sake of having it ready, along with some CCell carts. I've called and/or went to a dozen shops, but they only sell the volcano itself with starter set inside. One of the workers explained that the investment & margins in buying/selling Storz & Bickel accessories is too high for what they're worth. I asked about CCell carts and they either don't have empty ones to sell, don't know what I'm talking about, or have cheap ones that look similar and pretty cheap for a $5 each tag.

    I've got a few questions for you if you don't mind. Have you ever tried vaping hemp before? Also, out of curiosity, what are your personal favorites for vaporizers/mods for buds & concentrates and do you prefer flower more than oils or vice versa?
  • Baron23
    7.9k
    Have you ever tried vaping hemp before?majmun

    No, its what they make rope out of (look up Manila Hemp rope...back in day it was made from real hemp haha)

    I don't vape other botanicals and I don't consider myself a searcher for holistic medical stuff. MJ works well for my med issues...well, well enough....and that's why I'm in this community.

    As far as Volcano....fuck the stores. Order from one of the big online retailers and yes, mostly they come with the Easy Valve starter set....why don't you want this...do you already have bags and chambers?

    Also, out of curiosity, what are your personal favorites for vaporizers/mods for buds & concentrates and do you prefer flower more than oils or vice versa?majmun

    I'm 66 years old and don't vape out and on the go very much. So, most of my fav's are desktops and in particular I love the ones I have now:

    1. Flower Pot Shower Head
    2. EVO with hydratube
    3. G43
    4. Volcano
    5. Enano

    For portables, my favorites right now are:

    1. Mighty
    2. DynaVap's VapCap

    For concentrates, I mostly dab. I have a Liger banger V2 (its a magnificent product but I can't recommend them any longer as the design has changed and the owner can't find his ass with both hands....shame, really), a D-nail Halo, and one of my favorites (but not for pressed rosin which is dirtier so I prefer the surface of the SiC insert in my Liger) is 710coils.com quartz banger and coil running with an Auber 300-RDK controller.

    I don't use pens hardly at all anymore.....actually, not at all.

    For portable or quick 'trates hits, I use a cart on any one of a number of box mods. I live in a med legal state so carts are available and work a treat for that up at 2am in pain short session.

    Hope this is helpful.
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