• The Rogue Wax Works
    Yep, if I did not buy it from a dispensary or a completely trusted source I would not smoke it.
  • Baron23
    From Amazon....empty Dank Vape packaging so any unscrupulous or incompetent asshat can sell poison to unsophisticated (or just plain idiotic) consumers.

    Look to the additives...and with these bath tub carts, wtf knows what's in there.

  • Rudis21
    Did I miss something? I don't see anywhere that these incidents were due to "bad" cartridges. Just related to vaping. These incidents could be from cartridges that were bought at trusted places or dispensarys. Maybe I misread something when I was skimming the articles. I know everyone wants to believe our habits are healthy, but we honestly have no real clue what we are doing to our bodies.
  • Dankpup
    no, a lot of the articles I read were black market, non medical/legal states. I’m in NJ and we’ve got them, I’ve been warning friends etc for a year, all you can do is try.
  • Dr green thumb

    They are sounding like possibly e juice carts with thc and nicotine. So this is a little different than the normal cart we refer to. I was just letting everyone know as this is effecting so many states.

    I wouldn't go near any black market carts or concentrate of any kind until they know the cause. dispensaries and made yourself excluded
  • Rudis21
    I know Penn is a medical state. All I was saying is that there seems to be a lot of assumptions that these are just illegal carts. These incidents could easily be from any type of cartridge. I worked for almost 20 years for a respiratory health care company and it is pretty safe to say that inhaling anything into your lungs is dangerous. These incidents should concern everyone, although when any warning comes I know most people just scoff and say my stuff is safe.

    Thank you for bringing these articles to the forum @Dr green thumb
  • Baron23
    These incidents could be from cartridges that were bought at trusted places or dispensarys.Rudis21

    No, just the opposite. AFAIK, none have been found to be caused by carts from regulated, tested, legal programs. If you find an article or study report that does link this rash of respiratory illnesses with legal, tested, carts...please post it ASAP.

    Now, this from Maryland....and yes, certainly not conclusive nor a finding that applies nationally, but to my knowledge, no cases have been associated with legal, tested, regulated products.

    Maryland Department of Health Investigating Cases of Severe Lung Illness in People Using E-Cigarettes
    At this time, no reported cases linked to MMCC patients

    Linthicum, MD – (August 29, 2019) – The Natalie M. LaPrade Medical Cannabis Commission (MMCC) is assisting the Maryland Department of Health (MDH) to investigate several reported cases of severe lung illness in people using electronic cigarettes, also commonly referred to as vapes. MDH has identified five individuals who in the last two months developed severe lung illness after using electronic cigarettes or vapes. At this time, none of the reported cases involve Maryland medical cannabis patients.
  • Rudis21
    I was refering to the two articles in this thread. I didn't see anywhere where the cartridges came from, just that it was vaping related. I'm with @Dr green thumb that the cases are probably more ejuice related. But still to assume that everything we get is safe is a little naive. Legal states still have issues with chemicals too.
  • Baron23
    Well, who said anything about assuming that everything is safe?

    My point is that, again AFAIK, there have been no cases traced back to legal, tested, carts from a regulated program. That is certainly not everything and quite frankly, people who buy bootleg carts from back alley production houses are probably also people who would drink bathtub gin and meth made by the Angels. sigh

    Vape Pen Lung Disease Has Insiders Eyeing Misuse of New Additives

    SAN FRANCISCO—During alcohol prohibition, drinkers had to worry about getting sick and dying from “bathtub gin.” This week, vapers are learning of similar quality control issues with cannabis oil vape cartridges purchased on the illegal market.
    People were vaping illicit cannabis carts last year without ending up in the hospital. So it makes sense to ask: What has changed?

    A rash of tainted THC vape cartridge poisonings is thought to have claimed one life in Illinois and caused lung inhalation injuries to as many as 215 people in 25 states, according to a Centers for Disease Control (CDC) conference call last Friday, and updates Aug. 30.

    California now has 24 suspected cases of the hyper-inflammatory lung response, first identified by doctors in the Central Valley town of Hanford on Aug. 14 after recognizing that seven young adults had all suffered from sudden acute respiratory distress in the past month. The common thread: Each patient had purchased disposable, THC-filled vaporizer cartridges from illegal street markets.
    Nearly All Cases in Illegal States

    Most importantly, no cases are associated with adult-use or medical cannabis products from legal state-licensed stores. Almost all affected states do not have adult-use legalization in effect. They include Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, North Carolina, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas, Utah, and Wisconsin. Additional states are pending verification. The California incidents occurred in Kings County, which has banned licensed cannabis stores.

    Reports indicate that severe acute respiratory distress resembling lipoid pneumonia followed the repeated use of tainted carts. The patients’ heavily inflamed, fluid-filled lungs lost function and sometimes failed. Two patients in California required mechanical ventilation. Steroids knocked down the lung inflammation, but recovery has taken weeks of hospital care. Some patients may have permanent lung damage.

  • Rudis21
    That was really only the conclusion I was drawing when it comes this discussion. It always seems to be "don't touch black market stuff" while people whistle past the graveyard because they bought there stuff at a legal place. I'm glad this forum brings articles like this to the public. It is a good reminder that while we are all mostly trying for healthy alternatives they still come with serious risk. Vaping keeps me off of opioids so it's a lesser of two evils. I fully understand that I am damaging my body still.
  • LabPong
    But still to assume that everything we get is safe is a little naive. Legal states still have issues with chemicals too.Rudis21

    Yes.....and my state is a good example of that....though they are going through the squeeze of mandatory state certified/tested materials only can be sold to dispo's. The dispo's could of purchased anything they wanted and sold it off...as long as it was purchased prior to june 1 this year.

    So now that the caregiver/small grows now have to sell to the big growers to sell to the dispo's.....supply is at an all time low in the dispo's. The big growers/wholesalers are the only ones that can do the state testing proir to it going on the market. So the small guys would not get much to absorb the cost of the testing themselves.

    With that said....the black market is thriving and has both shit and top shelf available. Rec here will not be ready till late 2020 it feels like. Glad I cultivate my own!
  • EconMan
    With that said....the black market is thriving and has both shit and top shelf available. Rec here will not be ready till late 2020 it feels like. Glad I cultivate my own!LabPong

    I'm teaching a graduate course next semester -- Prohibition Economics -- and I'm going to use the above quote verbatim on a "evaluate the following statement" type question on one of the exams. :100:
  • Ctipp22
    Ecigs and carts are getting some attention lately
  • LabPong
    yea.....carts are the easiest way to use crap harmful cheap elements. I think I am pretty much done with oils now.......unless it is from 1 or 2 of the best in MI....and they are live resin full spectrum. Those were the only oils I could ever tolerate and enjoy. For now.....fresh flowers and gooey booger's from my press will keep me satisfied.

    MI's governor is going all out on the candy nicotine vapes now too.

    I'm teaching a graduate course next semester -- Prohibition Economics -- and I'm going to use the above quote verbatim on a "evaluate the following statement" type question on one of the exams.EconMan

    wow......I have not yet been an author for anything educational......do I get paid too? :nerd:
  • The Rogue Wax Works
    Scientists Show Why Vaping May Be Behind a Rare Lung Illness

  • Rockytdogg
    Oregon death is 2nd linked to vaping, 1st tied to pot shop

    By Gillian Flaccus Associated Press, September 5, 2019, 11:42 a.m.

    PORTLAND, Ore. — Public health officials in Oregon said Wednesday that a person who recently died of a severe respiratory illness had used an electronic cigarette containing marijuana oil from a legal dispensary, the second death linked to vaping nationwide and the first tied to a vaping product bought at a pot shop.

    Officials have not determined what sickened the middle-aged adult, whether the product was contaminated or whether they may have added something to the liquid in the device after buying it, said Dr. Ann Thomas with the Oregon Health Authority.

    Thomas declined to name the brand of the product or the dispensary during the investigation and said it’s the only case of vaping-related illness or death in Oregon that authorities know about.

    ‘‘Our investigation has not yielded exactly what it is in this product,’’ Thomas said. ‘‘At this point, some of the other states have more data than us.’’

    As of last week, 215 possible cases of severe lung disease associated with the use of e-cigarettes had been reported by 25 states, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The battery-powered vaping devices can be used to inhale a flavored nicotine solution or a solution infused with marijuana oil.

    Illinois officials on Friday reported what they consider the first death in the nation linked to vaping after the person contracted a serious lung disease. They didn’t say if the e-cigarette contained marijuana oil or just nicotine.

    Health officials in some states have said a number of people who got sick had vaped products containing THC, the compound that gives marijuana its high.

    That’s a critical distinction in the Oregon case, according to the American Vaping Association, which has blamed the recent spate of lung illnesses on illegal vape pens that contain THC.

    Wisconsin public health officials said late last month that 89 percent of the people they interviewed who became sick reported using e-cigarettes or other vaping devices to inhale THC.

    In New York state, 32 cases of vaping-related illness have been reported, with a ‘‘vast majority’’ involving people who vape illicit marijuana. None has involved medical marijuana products sold in compliance with state law.

    New York officials are focusing their investigation on an additive used in black-market vape oils made from vitamin E. A state health department spokeswoman said a lab has found ‘‘high levels’’ of vitamin E acetate in ‘‘nearly all’’ the marijuana samples involved.

    Officials cautioned, however, that there have been respiratory illnesses diagnosed where the vaping product did not contain marijuana.

    ‘‘It’s kind of scary and it’s hard to believe that any vaping is really safe at this point,’’ said Thomas, the Oregon doctor.

    In Oregon, where marijuana is broadly legal for adults 21 and older, dispensaries can’t sell products that have not been tested by state-accredited labs.

    Mark Pettinger, spokesman for the Oregon Liquor Control Commission, which oversees Oregon’s legal marijuana industry, said the investigation was in its early stages, but if it turns out the THC oil was implicated, his agency can track the product back to its origin and review all the testing results.

    In general, all marijuana intended for sale at a legal dispensary is tested for pesticides and potency, as well as for solvents, if the product is not dried marijuana flower.

    US Senator Ron Wyden, of Oregon, said he will introduce legislation next week that would tax e-cigarettes in the same way as traditional cigarettes to reduce the appeal to teenagers who are increasingly taking up the popular smoking alternative.

    ‘‘The products are highly addictive. They’re subject to minimal safety standards and oversights, exposing users to dangerous chemicals ... and they are getting into the hands of more and more young people,’’ Wyden said.

    The American Vaping Association said in a statement that vaping products are ‘‘far less harmful than smoking’’ and have helped people break their addiction to traditional cigarettes.

    ‘‘Making vaping products more expensive has not been shown to reduce experimentation by youth and will only lead to more adults continuing to smoke deadly combustible cigarettes,’’ association president Gregory Conley said in an email.

    Health experts say nicotine is harmful to developing brains. Researchers worry that addicted teens will eventually switch from vaping to smoking.

    Most experts agree the aerosol in e-cigarettes is less harmful than traditional cigarette smoke because it does not contain most of the cancer-causing byproducts of burning tobacco. But there is virtually no research on the long-term effects of the vaping chemicals, some of which are toxic.

    Medical Writer Carla K. Johnson contributed from Seattle.

  • Dr green thumb

    They found the cause it was vitamin e added to concentrate

    Vitamin e acetate found in nearly all samples in ny
  • EconMan
    They found the cause it was vitamin e added to concentrateDr green thumb

    Is V-e cheap? I suppose relative to cannabis oil it must be?

    Lastly, we have so many simultaneous threads on this SAME topic. It can get confusing which is which.... :worry:
  • Dr green thumb



    Vitamin e acetate is safe to ingest and for topical use. The problem comes when it is vaporized and inhaled.
  • EconMan

    Interesting. So If my rent was late. I could buy Ve and load into carts and sell them to make some quick cash. :lol:
  • EconMan
    I had no idea. :gasp:
  • Dr green thumb
    One theory is juul carts tampered with in china where they are filled even though the pods are mfg in the USA

    It covers too many states to be 1 bad batch of concentrates.
  • LabPong
    One theory is juul carts tampered with in china where they are filled even though the pods are mfg in the USADr green thumb

    That is totally bass-ackwards....lol
  • LabPong

    It would have been interesting to see this operation. And $16 a cart?
    Dr green thumb

    Stupid 20 yr old douche-bag! Hope he serves life! And yea....if you buy an oil cart for less than $25-30 a 1/2g for a single.....you should understand your probably buying crap.
  • EconMan
    And $16 a cart?Dr green thumb

    $16 RETAIL !!!! :gasp:
    That is some ghetto shit. Even assuming a 1/2g, I can *barely* even make it myself for that.

    And beyond the oil, what lame-ass carts is he using to fill? :roll: Doubt he is springing for CCell.
  • It's in the details
    But evidently you can't trust a med dispensary -- not in MA anyway. The state has all kinds of regs for the levels of solvents in vape concentrates, but no regulations about the stuff that's used to dilute the vape juice!
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