• CarelessDogg
    2
    So, I know a lot of you have probably heard about the recent concerns about vaping and how it affects your health. And I also know most people just read headlines and immediately come to conclusions. I am not like that. So, after a little bit of reading, I'd like to give you a summary.

    First, you need to learn about the research and events regarding what we're talking about. I can write about it, but honestly, I didn't even wanna start thread. I just see saw no one else do it, so here's a short video that explains about what has been published so far:

    https://youtu.be/rVSuPxr5-ZY?t=209

    So, what does this tell us? Well, both the research and the recent events are only linked to e-cigarettes' e-liquids. And there are no common ingredients used in those e-liquids compared to dry herb cannabis and BHO concentrates. Vape cartridges also don't share any common ingredient compared to e-cigarettes' e-liquids. except the flavorings (so, you might want to consider that). Vape cartridges without added flavorings do exist though. Another important thing to note is that the research has been made on mice (not humans).

    Does this mean that vaping cannabis has nothing to do with this? Well, technically, there is one common factor. In both cases you are inhaling aerosol (what we incorrectly call "vapor"). So, there is still a chance (although small, since there are so many possible factors that could explain this). Also, keep in mind that since this industry is "new", it's seemingly not well regulated. So, you probably want to be careful who you do business with.

    I'm guessing most of you live in the United States or Canada. I don't, but I have been following the news (only cause US politics is disastrously hilarious to me), and if the US government is going to ban "vaping". This could have effect you and this industry immensely. Especially, since lawmakers can do a very bad job. And US laws (even dumb ones) can inspire other countries.

    Edit: I wrote an advice at first, but decided to remove it since I really I'm not in a mood for a discussion. So, come to your own conclusions. Do what you think it's best for you and this industry.
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    no matter how ypu paint it its vaping thats what its doing....
    And the real evil here the thing that is newer then e cigarettes are carts. Ecigarettes are at least somewhat regulated. Illegal marijuana carts arnt.

    People making eliquid are following regulations its made in a laboratory setting, health and saftey is taken into consideration. Is it healthy for you no.

    People making illegal carts are using anything they can think of to thin. They are regulated only by the top dawg and then pass through many hands on the way to you. Thats what people are dying from. Eliquid has been on the market for a while now so if it was the culprit im certaint wed have known before now.

    Lets focus on the real problem here which isnt eiquid or dry herb vaping. Its people holding convenience over health.
  • CarelessDogg
    2
    I honestly don't require any response. You can read my post and take it or leave it. I just hope it made you think about it at least. That's it.
  • Baron23
    9.5k
    yeah, you may not want a discussion, you certainly are not obligated to participate in a discussion, but after making such a broad post, there will be a discussion! Haha

    You mention recent events which I presume to mean the recent cluster of lipid pneumonia like disease.

    If so, then I disagree w the statement that this is related to only ecigs, as in nicotine delivery devices.

    My reading of the current state of facts is that there is a great deal of correlation w these cases and use of back alley produced, illegal, MJ carts that appear to be adulterated w cutting or thickening agents and that these agents....and in particular Vit E oil....are particularly well correlated with these cases.

    Please free to ignore my post. Haha
  • VapeCritic
    13.9k
    The vape industry could use a shake-up, it's like the wild west with e-juice. Most people who vape MJ are well aware that e-liquids are no good and stay away from them, the latest health scare is about tainted MJ cartridges and not much else. The govt will probably end up banning or severely restricting flavored e-juice, which I'm indifferent to bc I think it's crap anyway. Also, be mindful of where you get your U.S. news from :up:
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    I think the banning of flavours is what should happen. If you take out the flavorings your left with nic vg/pg.
    Certiantly not healthy for you, but to me it seems healthier then cigarettes, this is not why i vape nic though. Nic vg/pg dont really smell and they certaintly dont stick to my clothes.
    The flavouring just adds unnecessary chemicals into the equation and they can smell bad too sometimes, but the good thing is they dont linger either.
    There is a whole other world of nic vape users out there. Not just these kids running around with nic candy blowing made clouds because it cool.... Which sucks because it actually can be a better alternative. In my opionon of course.
  • BestBuds
    1.4k
    Also, be mindful of where you get your U.S. news from :up:VapeCritic
    So true and so depressing...
  • Dankpup
    93
    if the conspiracy is pharma (#1 or #2 in lobbying based on how you look at it) is doing the poisoning, or is complicit?I remember a few years ago in Arizona an opioid company was against legalization because they were developing synthetic. So they were spending shit loads of money on anti pot ads etc. I don’t see much of a misinformation campaign by the media except stop vaping shit that you don’t know where it comes from or the reality that we don’t know the long-term effects of what vaping oils does to you.
  • Baron23
    9.5k
    In both cases you are inhaling aerosol (what we incorrectly call "vapor").CarelessDogg

    Well, actually I disagree with this also. When I vape flower and do not combust and create particulants, I have boiled a number of cannabinoids and other organic substances into their gaseous state. This is vapor.

    Aerosol is generally thought to be very small particles of a liquid suspended in a gaseous carrier. The output of a nebulizer is a good example of generating an aerosol.


    As nouns the difference between vapor and aerosol
    is that vapor is cloudy diffused matter such as mist, steam or fumes suspended in the air while aerosol is a liquid or solid composed of finely divided particles suspended in a gaseous medium.
  • BestBuds
    1.4k
    I don’t see much of a misinformation campaign by the mediaDankpup
    I can't change what you see. Maybe in my neck of the woods, the local media is different? I don't know.

    I do know I have heard misinformation about cannabis my entire life from all authority figures. This latest vape lung b.s. is about carts and the nasty shizz in them, but in the news, I have heard support of the idea that it's about cannabis, not the carts and the other effed up crap in them. If you don't see that then count yourself lucky. The news I hear from US sources is rarely unadulterated by greed.
  • LabPong
    3.1k
    Please free to ignore my post. HahaBaron23

    I tried....but failed.... :wink:
  • EconMan
    4.1k
    Bizarre thread.
    First, this forum has lots of discussions on this with viewpoints given and heard... LOTS of times. Lots of content. So totally unclear what you mean by "no one else" is doing it? People here have been "doing it" for some time, especially given current events.
    Second, If you're not in the "mood for a discussion" and you "didn't want to post", this does beg the question why choose a public discussion forum to make your blog post rather than... well... a blog.
    Third, the post didn't really make me think since so many other similar posts have been posted that already made me think, days and weeks hence.
  • LabPong
    3.1k
    Bizarre thread.
    First, this forum has lots of discussions on this with viewpoints given and heard... LOTS of times. Lots of content. So totally unclear what you mean by "no one else" is doing it? People here have been "doing it" for some time, especially given current events.
    Second, If you're not in the "mood for a discussion" and you "didn't want to post", this does beg the question why choose a public discussion forum to make your blog post rather than... well... a blog.
    Third, the post didn't really make me think since so many other similar posts have been posted that already made me think, days and weeks hence.
    EconMan

    x 1000 or....... = CNN + MSNBC combined......PLUS ALL THE DEM RUNNERS......lol
  • Dankpup
    93
    With this issue I mean, It’s been pretty easy to suss out the reports are saying people are buying black market products, I’m suspecting counterfeit Juul etc will come up eventually, if headlines were anti dispensary I would be more suspect. In the US dispensary legitimacy can vary based on the state. I would imagine the end result of doctored carts etc would sway people toward the more populist position of federal legalization and hopefully regulation, maybe I’m an optimist pothead, if we had that the CDC or FDA could track down products to their manufactured state and batch etc.
    I don’t envy the agencies trying to track down the sources of all this shit product now.
  • Baron23
    9.5k
    Another article...with a slightly different focus...from Associated Press

    https://my.xfinity.com/articles/news-science/20190916/US--Spiked-CBD-d813

    Makers of spiked CBD vapes exploit gaps in enforcement

    Jay Jenkins says he hesitated when a buddy suggested they vape CBD.

    "It'll relax you," the friend assured.

    The vapor that Jenkins inhaled didn't relax him. After two puffs, he ended up in a coma.

    That's because what he was vaping didn't have any CBD, the suddenly popular compound extracted from the cannabis plant that marketers say can treat a range of ailments without getting users high. Instead, the oil was spiked with a powerful street drug.

    Some operators are cashing in on the CBD craze by substituting cheap and illegal synthetic marijuana for natural CBD in vapes and edibles such as gummy bears, an Associated Press investigation has found.

    The practice has sent dozens of people like Jenkins to emergency rooms over the last two years. Yet people behind spiked products have operated with impunity, in part because the business has boomed so fast that regulators haven't caught up while drug enforcement agents have higher priorities.

    AP commissioned laboratory testing of the vape oil Jenkins used plus 29 other vape products sold as CBD around the country, with a focus on brands that authorities or users flagged as suspect. Ten of the 30 contained types of synthetic marijuana — drugs commonly known as K2 or spice that have no known medical benefits — while others had no CBD at all.

    Among them was Green Machine, a pod compatible with Juul electronic cigarettes that reporters bought in California, Florida and Maryland. Four of those seven pods contained illegal synthetic marijuana, but which chemical varied by flavor and even location of purchase.

    "It's Russian roulette," said James Neal-Kababick, director of Flora Research Laboratories, which tested the products. (cont follow the link above)
  • EconMan
    4.1k
    I think the banning of flavours is what should happen.Tyedyesamuraiguy

    I'm against the banning of anything like this. I'm for the legalization of self-medication period -- be it nicotine, nyquil, marijuana, cocaine, opioids, lsd, or liquid plumber. My body is mine. I own it, or should, not the government or even society. Morally, should be able to do with it what I fully choose, assuming I can afford it and barring any direct harm to others, including but not limited to self-medication, the selling of my blood and organs, the renting of my mouth, asshole, and other in-demand orifices, suicide, or any other mutually agreed to exchange between consenting adults.

    Whose property am I? It is my belief I am my own. Indeed, a life of one's own. Mine.

    Indeed, if I was to ban anything, it would be the police power society gives the AMA and the monopolies it gives to businesses. I would ban harming freedom. :nerd:
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    well i mean i said it but the thing is i too am indifferent to a point.
    The thing that i dont think should be allowed is the word juice in the marketing, some of this shit even comes in bottles that ressemble pop and shit and the candy flavours i do think entice children it makes it even more intresting i imagine that shit makes a kids mouth water honestly.

    Smoking cigarrttes in public areas and buildings including apartments/shared housing is the only ban im okay with. I have to breath that air too and my health trumps the right to poison.
  • EconMan
    4.1k


    I am very skeptical. I doubt even one teen is not aware before they vape they are vaping flavored nicotine. It says so right on the box. If there is such a teen, well, I also believe in natural selection.

    And as to your exception hunting - :monkey: - I clearly prefaced my statements "...barring any direct harm to others" :nerd:

    There are reasons to ban things -- murder for instance since it is clearly a violation of my property rights.
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    no i mean younger then teens, a kid that would smell it expecting to find candy but instead its a dude with a man bun playing pokemon go blowing clouds lol. That kid is gonna want that candy!
  • Dankpup
    93
    I was wondering when we’d hear about synthetic cannibiniods in products.
  • EconMan
    4.1k
    no i mean younger then teens, a kid that would smell it expecting to find candy but instead its a dude with a man bun playing pokemon go blowing clouds lol. That kid is gonna want that candy!Tyedyesamuraiguy

    But that is not what you said. :razz:
    Nor is it even remotely within the facts of the stories we've been discussing. All vapes of all kinds are already banned (as is nicotine) in every municipality I'm aware of regarding minors. So that part is moot.
    The alleged problem is NOT innocent five-year olds vaping because the vape looks like a cute little candy unicorn and they were simply confused by their desire for sweets. No, these are "proto-adults" who know what they are purposefully doing. No one gets confused it is actually candy. Just a couple hundred years ago these "victims" would already have children.

    Again, the knee-jerk reaction of government (read POTUS and other's fuckhead statements) is not to ban flavored nic use by children (already banned) but to ban it for everyone because a child (usually they mean older teen) might get hurt. If minimizing serious injuries and death of minors really is the political game, then let's make the speed limit 5mph everywhere (about a dozen american children per week on average die in collisions at speed). We just must "do something." To be safe, let's just ban automobiles in general. Forget the other costs.

    I did a quick data-dog hunt and can only find one instance of a child dying from nic vapes. And it wasn't from vaping but the stupid parents left the bottle out opened and their toddler got it on his skin and it killed him. FYI, done cat rescue for a decade now, and merely a couple drops of nic concentrate on a cat and it is very dead and/or severely damaged.
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    i said that we should ban flavours and then i said it influences kids. It is relevant because the op but alot of pressure on ecigarettes that i wanted to defend, but at the same time i agree with the flavourings.

    Cigarettes taste and smell like shit yet kids everywhere still do it, e liquid that smells and tastes delicious is a way bigger problem for underage nicotine use that is a fact.
  • EconMan
    4.1k
    i said that we should ban flavours and then i said it influences kids. It is relevant because the op but alot of pressure on ecigarettes that i wanted to defend, but at the same time i agree with the flavourings.Tyedyesamuraiguy

    If I didn't like and respect you I would just drop it, but I really do want to know your view and why. But STILL after reading the above I don't know what it is. LOL :razz:

    Let's make it simple. Should congress ban flavored e-cigs (they are already banned for minors). Yes, or No and briefly why?
  • Tyedyesamuraiguy
    2.1k
    my thoughts havent been very organized, and ive been doing the two places at once bit :blush:

    So this is what i would do or suggest be done.
    I believe in freedom so this is where my choice to "ban" or perhaps now after thinking more modify how e liquid is sold. My first order of buisness, no longer call eliquid juice... There should be no relation period.
    331wjm0z076fbw5g.jpg
    yiod8a8rfa72jd2s.jpg

    Second it should only be sold as a base, meaning the only pre mixed ingredients you can buy are any combination of pg vg and nic.
    If you choose to flavour it yourself well thats your prerogative and where you can retain your "freedom"

    I really feel that this substance does not get the respect that it deserves and i sit high up on a fence i do see both sides probably why im so hard to follow lol.

    I really do see it as a negative influence on young children think preschool age etc. If you take away the lovley enticing smell or at least make it alot harder to get i feel like less of that younger population is going to vape.
    I am a bit cynical at the same time, maybe it js a lost cause and we should just fall to anarchy because its all fucked anyway.

    Thats why im kinda on the outside at the end of the fay i dont really care id rather have e cigs flavour on no flavour then cigs and thats my only hard stance i would say lol
  • EconMan
    4.1k
    Hey @Baron23 I see now where this "vapor = water" thesis started. Had the news on and heard vaping isn't vaping because the vapor isn't water vapor... but "aerosol"
    Hunted it down and there is an online stream available. Seems this "expert" is an expert in psychology, not vaping.

    va·por /ˈvāpər/ noun
    1. a substance diffused or suspended in the air, especially one normally liquid or solid.

    https://www.today.com/video/how-teens-are-hiding-their-vaping-habits-in-plain-sight-69131333600
  • okla68m
    1.3k
    As nouns the difference between vapor and aerosol
    is that vapor is cloudy diffused matter such as mist, steam or fumes suspended in the air while aerosol is a liquid or solid composed of finely divided particles suspended in a gaseous medium.
  • okla68m
    1.3k
    That "google" definition is aa cloudy as milk.....!
    Sorta sounds like describing the Same Thing.
    When vaping a Cart, you are gasification of a liquid....vaping Flower is gasification of a solid (Trichomes).....is that not true ? Is "Air" not considered a Gas Also ?
  • okla68m
    1.3k
    An "aerosol" doesn't have to have Heat to be produced, a "gas/vapor" has to have some kind of Heat Change to form, is that not true ?
  • Ctipp22
    2.1k
    This sucks for me though because I use ecigs to help me not smoke cigs.
  • Ctipp22
    2.1k
    What is the Potential products causing issues? thc carts and flavored ecigs??
  • okla68m
    1.3k
    I've heard nothing about banning e-cigs, just the Flavors!
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