• Dankpup
    “The packaging suggested the product contained minimal THC content, though authorities say the cartridges housed up to 1,000 mg — over 150 times what the label indicated”
    Under promise over deliver !
  • bulllee
    Just saw this in my mail. https://www.azfamily.com/news/sheriff-s-office-busts-illegal-thc-vape-cartridge-operation-in/article_16d9501a-da44-11e9-bcad-472669780f57.html
    I assumed that this was going down in states without legal or medical access. Just made me happy that I don't do carts anymore. Sour Dabs, Weed Thins, and Dank are some of the cart names. I believe we are just seeing these nation wide not just AZ. Never know unless you roll it yourself .
  • EconMan

    It is not just carts. This *will* impact flower and edibles too.
    This phobia impacts the banks who are ALREADY very nervous about any MJ or CBD account, and given current events they are apocalyptic. There is no such thing as a "cart" Merchant Account (accept payment cards), so if dispensaries and wholesalers start losing their merchant accounts, it isn't just carts they won't be selling anymore.
    One of my clients friends who I've been talking to has a delivery business in CA and he is very worried... he called me because his merchant bank has requested (demanded) a complete catalogue of EVERY inventory item he sells. He can tell they are inspecting closely.

    To add insult to injury, his local business bank (not merchant bank) is now requiring a reserve to keep his account - $50,000 deposit he can't touch, even though it is his money. He borrowed heavily to build his business, and if they take his revenue away... he is done because his debt stays. But what can he do but pay the $50k. To me it is a form of legal extortion.
  • Ctipp22
    Lets hope it doesn't create problems for flower
  • EconMan

    Indeed. The danger is the human political tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.
  • BobCat

    This excerpt from the article is key to the OP.

    "Information on what kind of product or vape device they were using has not been released, including whether it was THC or nicotine based."
  • MrGreen

    Caught that , is it lack of information or misinformation.
  • EconMan

    Interesting. When you first click it asks you "where you are from". If you say Canada, then a submenu appears with "which part of Canada?".... If you choose US, then you simply get redirected with no questions about what state you are from. Obviously leafly.ca is is being kept separate than leafly.com ?
  • Dankpup
    “To me it is a form of legal extortion” . I see credit card processing in general as a vig industry. I have calls all day of companies wanting to handle payments/prociessing. Consumers in general don’t realize you’re cutting someone else in on a transaction, the more you use plastic and the less cash is used.... end result is higher prices.
    Your talking about companies being afraid of CBD dispensary money etc reminds me of the HSBC bank scandal years ago where the drug cartels had special containers to make their huge cash deposits. HSBC sure wasn’t scare of that illicit money lol.
  • EconMan

    LOL on HSBC :joke:

    Yes and no.
    Certainly there are LOTS of "used-car" style companies out there. "Dialing for dollars" is a strategy most use. Forget if it's a good fit, how long the account will last, just get um in and move on to the next application. Those companies operate in the commodity market where the only thing of concern is price. People will leave you over 20 basis points.
    We don't do that. We've never made a cold-call. We don't advertise. We have a token webpage and we prosper on 100% referrals. But no one has ever left us an no one has ever been abruptly shut down and missed sales. And guess what, we are not the cheapest. If someone calls and the first thing they want to talk about is price, we politely let them go. We dont treat our customers like commodities and I refuse to allow myself to be treated by one. We walk away from a lot of business (why out portfolio is so clean).

    Re credit cards in general, it is an interesting evolution. The current system goes back to the "pre computer/internet age where paper statements and looking up bad cc numbers in actual physical books at checkout were the norm. So it is all about how does one "verify" the validity of purchasing power.

    Issuing Bank (IB) -- the Bank Name on the consumer's Credit card. Who the consumer legally "owes" their charges to. Half of the "interchange fee" goes to them.
    Acquirer Bank (AB) -- the merchant's "credit card processing bank". This bank receives the other half of the "interchange fee" and is responsible -- NOT the IB -- for depositing the merchant's money into their account and dispersing the IB's half of the interchange. So the AB "fronts" the money to the Merchant freeing them from needing to collect from the IB who may have no relationship with the merchant at all. AMEX is different. Other than relatively small merchants, they have a direct relationship with the merchant. This is why Visa/MC/Discover/etc are so envious of AMEX and always will be. AMEX literally has their own closed network. And guess what, they are the most "expensive".

    So the system is rather anachronistic because it was literally designed at a time when the technology did not exist to have merchant directly paid by the IB's. So you are most correct, the system "cuts" additional parties in on the transaction and everyone has their hand out.

    This is well demonstrated with "high rewards cards". Got a B2B client who is on Interchange+ and he pays a net of about 3.5%. Why? Because his customers (retailers) want to pay with cc's because they get cheap "float" and the card they choose are the ones that give them the most rewards. Not one customer of theirs has ever used a debit card (no/low rewards). So yes, SOMEONE has to pay the fees, and it is the merchant who passes it off to the consumer to the extent they can. In the end, the consumer pays. Until recently, one could not accept credit cards AND charge a fee (still can't with AMEX) for using one, but this has been severely relaxed via legislation and resulting new Visa/MC rules of service.

    Re CBD, the banks are not afraid of the "money" but the RISK -- potential of massive losses. The easiest way in the world to steal is get a merchant account, build a website, sell a bunch of shit and never ship it. Once the chargebacks start coming in and by the time the merchant bank takes notice and shuts it down, the merchant is long gone with the merchant bank holding the liability.

    When the big player banks ALL dropped out of CBD is was primarily because X% of CBD merchants are naive idiots. The chargebacks were through the roof. Their crazy unsubstantiated medical claims would result in sales, when they didn't work, people called the cc companies and disrupted the charges as they possess a legal right to do. This is why I can't place a CBD vendor at any "I feel good about this" rate who is small. The only banks who will take them are these tiny obscure location banks (i.e. in Montana) who are a bit like the greedy bank in Scarface. I won't deal with them.

    So from my view it is the zealot ma-pa vendors who have ruined it for the legitimate businesses. I've got to the point where on CBD I first want their website url -- then if they have unsubstantiated medical claims I ask if they are willing to take such things off. If they are adamant, I politely end the call.

    The banks are assholes, no doubt about it. But MANY cbd vendors are at best naive fools. THIS is the problem with cbd. I get better rates and can get applications through underwriting quicker for cannabis (federally illegal) than I can CBD. Any payments company that even implies CBD is not hard, or that they are going to get a cheap rate, is an "application factory". A numbers game.
  • Dr green thumb
    What if this was on purpose to sabotage the emerging marijuana market. Big pharma got big by running over all its competitors.

    Also has anyone read anything about the effects of hitting a juul with a dry wick. Could this cause this?
  • okla68m
    I wouldn't put it past them, would be a Typical "Reefer Madness" ploy.
    Sorta like SCHOOL SHOOTINGS or the other Democratic BS to destroy the 2nd amendment!
  • Dr green thumb

    Unfortunately this isn't about political parties. This was about money, be it legal or illegal it's all about money.
  • okla68m
    Of Course it's About MONEY ! BIG PHARMA, ALCOHOL INDUSTRY, TOBACCO, it's All Money....the ones selling the Contaminated carts are OUT FOR MONEY OR AS YOU SAID, TO NEGATIVELY AFFECT MEDICAL CANNABIS LAWS.
    The people selling FAKE DOPE (soap as Crack) are Out for Money....! Regardless of the Damage these Fakes may create....if it brings in money !
  • Microvaper
    Every news article I've seen about this refers to the fact that most or all of the deaths have been people that also vaped THC and it states for those that don't know that it's the psychoactive component from cannabis. Not all of the articles mention that the vapes were black market concentrate vapes. This is going to be devastating for the general opinion of weed in general. It does seem that there is an agenda to the blatent misinformation put out in some of these articles. Things like this are exactly what will make it almost impossible for any kind of legalisation in the UK and I wouldn't be surprised if it caused some back tracking on the recreational legalisation in some states.
  • Hapo
    ...any thinking person would question why this is an issue all of a sudden like and why it was not such a wide spread occurrence before so very recently...

    ...of course, there are not so many of those...
  • Dankpup
    ugh, in the world of powder and pills adulteration has been a given for decades. “Why all the sudden with weed man!” Cause you couldnt give someone with any minimal pot buying experience a bag containing 15% bud and the rest grass clippings and oregano. But with prefilled carts you can stiff and poison people rather easily.
    I’m gonna say humans do conspire, they just do, however until some proof of a large conspiracy? The world I know contains a population that would have no problem purposely or inadvertently poisoning people by diluting carts simply for profit purposes.
  • EconMan
    What if this was on purpose to sabotage the emerging marijuana market. Big pharma got big by running over all its competitors.Dr green thumb

    I would not be "shocked" if this was partially true, or even totally true. Juul is a tech company not really a tobacco or a pharma company but they are engage in both. Just like paypal was to the banks 10-15 years ago.

    The Altria Group (of Marlborough fame!) owns about 1/3 of Juul. So this is the political economy that is brewing. Is marijuana a recreational drug (like cigarettes) or a medicine (like antibiotics)? How this get legally defined over the next several years WILL determine the "culture"we enjoy or endure, which government agencies get involved, and which companies will be the hegemons.

    My view of the future is not a benevolent country of legal self-medication, but a malevolent one of big-pharma taking hold of it with much help from their Washington thugs -- aka lobbyists. This is why for 25 years in my published papers, presentations, interviews, op eds, anyone who will listen... I have spoken against medical marijuana. Granted, most of those who advocated it did so because strategically they believe an incremental gradual approach was the only way to get any legislation passed, but there is always an extra price to be paid when doing business with the Devil.

    And even much more foreboding than Big Pharma is Big Insurance. Just wait until the insurance companies get ahold of it and it will be their decision which weed and in what form and dose and source is best for you.

    Just like what the "internet" came to the public, near everyone heralded it as a breakthrough for freedom.... something impossible to regulate... "you can't regulate the internet" was something said my almost everyone at the time. Well, sadly, those same voices are the one adamantly demanding it be regulated as the government not only TOTALLY regulates it now (they can turn anyone "off" if they want) they ironically use it to listen and chronicle every fucking word we say.

    So no, by the time the last state "legalizes" I suspect black markets will still be flourishing as folks long for the good ol days of buying their weed from a "dealer".
  • Hapo

    ...even sadder is that a good part of the market will not care...

    ...I once pointed out that the "THC" one guy was snorting was actually based on rat poison and his response was he didn't care if it got him off...
  • Dankpup
    yes it represents a problem cause most on this forum would agree that weed has so many medicinal uses and benefits (as well as recreational fun). Agreed, insurance in US having any control over medical marijuana would be horrible, for profit bureaucracy has been the bain of my existence for the last year and half. So much of it is moving to the financial services/product category, just basically credit cards.
    Pharma opioid companies have been taking a beating lately and deservedly. Here is a link to one trying to empty out “bonuses” before they get gutted by lawsuits.

    It wouldn’t be below the moral fiber of pharma to poison carts but it would be very ballsy in this climate. So many individual states are jump in lawsuits.
  • EconMan
    It wouldn’t be below the moral fiber of pharma to poison carts but it would be very ballsy in this climate. So many individual states are jump in lawsuits.Dankpup

    I agree totally. The probability of DIRECT sabotage is low for the reasons you state, but as I said, *if* true I would not be "shocked" only surprised. But in reality "conspiracy" doesn't have to be either/or. They are literally ARMED with weapons called lobbyists and media consultants who they collectively spend billions of dollars with. So I am very confident their "army" are very much behind the media circus over this.

    Put in context, 8 deaths and 500 injuries. Hardly a pandemic. As I wrote elsewhere:
    ~500k injuries from ladders per year, ~300 deaths, vast majority at home. est econ cost = $25b.
    We going to ban ladders? Or just ban the pretty ones in case they attract kids?
  • Dankpup
    I remember this direct instant of “hey my marketshare!/I wanna corner the market.”
    Thru legal channels of course.
  • EconMan

    Dude! That was fascinating!

    The Community Anti-Drug Coalition of America, a nonprofit that organizes anti-marijuana activism across the country, has long received corporate sponsorship from Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxycontin, and Janssen Pharmaceuticals, another opioid manufacturer. :gasp: :grimace:

    Yeah, and the modus operandi of pharma is to attempt to "patent" everything. My MJ client in CO tells me he suspects via his rumor network common black market items like "shatter" (BHO process) will be patented by Big Pharma once it is legal to do so.
  • Dankpup
    trademarking shatter= unbelievable
  • EconMan
    trademarking shatter= unbelievableDankpup

    So is "Photos on a white background in e-commerce" but Amazon has one. They also tried to patent "one click" which is just encrypted scripting macros. :gasp: :vomit:
    Amazon has been granted a patent for taking photos against a white background by the US Patent and Trademark Office. The patent, which was filed by the web retailer in November 2011 and granted in March, claims ownership of a "studio arrangement" using a "white cyclorama" background

    The patent system is going lunatic fringe and is defeating the purpose for why they were institutionalized -- incentives to innovate. "Patent trolls" (googles it, it's a thing) often produce nothing, sell nothing, create nothing, but they patent broad weeping ideas waiting for a real company to come along and create something so they can play vampire/parasite.

    In my view one should not be able to patent an "idea", only a specific bona fide proprietary process for a specific purpose outside of common sense.

    The examples go on and on and on.....
    You may like this site which I read over morning coffee sometimes.
    Anuwave’s patent is on a software application using SMS to check for information—for example, for use on a device that can send and receive SMS messages, but doesn’t have an Internet connection. Anuwave alleges that Coinbase infringed the patent by letting users perform tasks like checking their balance via SMS. A patent on using SMS within an app? FML. :grimace:
  • Dr green thumb
    I bet 100% that someone will market a pod filled with weed or tobacco as a safe alternative.
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