• gnk
    79
    I have this strange feeling of déjà-vu: I've read a couple of years ago about grasshopper's battery catching fire (on reddit I think) and I do observe one of mine getting extremely hot and never getting fully charged...
    I can only feel that the recent fire was the last nail in hopper's coffin, after 5 years of false advertising about the "soon to be perfect device".
  • Terpenetime
    210
    ↪EconMan So they should automatically be taking the correct step and refunding people if they are sending them emails to throw there batteries out that were just purchased and delivered. But they are not . I am personally not disputing this with my card company but do think they should do the right thing or at least update on when new batteries may arrive.Justpassedu

    suspect that they are rather shell shocked, needed to get something out quick, and we will see what they say going forward.Baron23

    I think we all need to give Hopper Labs a little time to get their act together here. After all, the fire only happened yesterday so it’s reasonable to expect they’ve got a sizeable to-do list at the moment.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    I don't really have a dog in the race here. I'm not a customer and have nothing personal against them. So I for one am just speaking theoretically and in generalities. But these sorts of things are not good in the history of business failure, and much more often than not, they are fatal.

    And for some current humor :nerd:
    https://www.ebay.com/i/254403821073
  • EconMan
    4.3k
    Shit!!! :scream:
    FYI, this is generally the FIRST place a Merchant Bank underwriter looks -- the BBB. It would be very difficult for me to get these folks a merchant account.

    https://www.bbb.org/us/co/boulder/profile/online-retailer/grasshopper-labs-llc-0885-90245195/complaints
  • Terpenetime
    210
    But these sorts of things are not good in the history of business failure, and much more often than not, they are fatalEconMan

    I’m under absolutely no illusion that this may turn out to be the end for Hopper Labs, although I’m sure we all hope that isn’t the case. :100:

    I do have some skin in the game as a recent purchaser of not one but two used Hoppers under 6 months old, which i’m delighted to say are both working perfectly. Fortunately I have six good batteries so at the moment I’m in a pretty good position, although I’m aware that could change at any moment :pray:
  • EconMan
    4.3k
    I’m under absolutely no illusion that this may turn out to be the end for Hopper Labs, although I’m sure we all hope that isn’t the case.Terpenetime

    I don't hope that. Generally, I love it when businesses fail (as long as it is not my own) because without business failure, business success can't happen. Failure is a proxy variable for freedom and innovation. Capitalism is "creatively destructive" and poorly run businesses need to and should die. FYI - a "poorly run business" is one that doesn't make a profit.

    This is one reason why I dislike George Bush and Barack Obama from a political perspective.
  • ShayWhiteGrow
    112
    Thanks for contacting us. We have placed your order on the list for refund. Please allow some time for this to happen while we make the necessary arrangements. We are sorry for any inconvenience this might cause you and are working as fast as possible to resolve the situation.

    Thanks,

    Hopper Labs Support
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    Not a bad reply, IMO.

    You ok with it?
  • ShayWhiteGrow
    112
    Yep. Cause I’m keeping all 6 batts in rotation I just got plus I got about 10 more decent older ones and 2 working hoppers. Plus their sweet bubbler that replaced my case order. Maybe they’re rebranding and bringing out the marker sized gh. One can only dream
  • Terpenetime
    210
    I’m under absolutely no illusion that this may turn out to be the end for Hopper Labs, although I’m sure we all hope that isn’t the case.
    — Terpenetime

    I don't hope that. Generally, I love it when businesses fail (as long as it is not my own) because without business failure, business success can't happen. Failure is a proxy variable for freedom and innovation. Capitalism is "creatively destructive" and poorly run businesses need to and should die. FYI - a "poorly run business" is one that doesn't make a profit.
    EconMan

    I have absolutely no problem with unprofitable businesses failing, although I’d fall short of celebrating their demise. However, what we’re talking about here is the (possible) outcome of a fire, which I would have thought even the most hard nosed capitalist would have empathised with.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    Given their issues, the fire seems too convenient for me. Regardless, if they fail as a company, it won't be due much to the fire. I'm a big believer in antifragility, both in business and in my personal life.

    People who make messes of their businesses, or their lives for that matter, allowed it to happen. Got a client right now who just shut down his business. His adult loser kids sucked all the money out of it -- better said, he let them talk him into sucking all the capital out and giving it to them. He's old and broke now and his loser kids are nowhere. Fragility sucks.
  • Magicman
    2k
    Loser kids all have Tesla.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    Na, around here it is all BMW's. :nerd:
  • Magicman
    2k
    @EconMan
    You will be M2/M4 man soon.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    Still carless. Been too busy to buy a car. Think I'm going to buy a Prius. I had one once and liked it quite a bit. I need something small but SUV'ish this time. got to haul drums. :nerd:
  • Mangu
    368
    that RAV4 hybrid is a beauty.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    Thanks. Will check it out when I go look at Prius's at the Toyota state-licensed rent-seeking dealer who will exploit me.

    I am happy for having the Tesla experience, but after six months, it was on NET annoying. I would only want another one if it was a short-commute or weekend fun car. Range and juicing up are ALWAYS on your mind. The "Rats incident" turned me totally off. If a fucking rat can do that much damage to a car there is something wrong with the car. :worry:

    On my short list to investigate. crossover SUV'ish stuff (and I like lots of gadgets)
    Prius trim package 5
    Rav4 hybrid (Lexus probably has a counterpart model?)
    Subaru Outback
    Acura RDX
    Mazda CX-5

    On the other side of the coin, taking Uber has not been at all bad. I should calculate how many Uber trips it takes before a car is justified. hmmmm must do a dab and go modeling
  • Illinois
    74
    Butane vapes to the rescue, only one owned battery operated vape, G43
  • acstorfer
    1.2k
    They had a fire suppression system but it had to get sent back for a warranty issues.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    Like I said. Too convenient. For a skeptical person like myself who has experienced folks torching their own businesses and multiple times, it's "too convenient" for me. Now I'm really suspicious. Turns the sensitivity on my radar way up. Of course, I possess zero objective knowledge of THEIR fire history. I wasn't there and know of no one who was.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    For the first time in about a year I have a perfectly operating GH and new batteries.

    The new batteries charge and discharge just like every other Li battery I have experience with.

    The new batteries are not at all hot...or even warm...after charging or after discharging by operating the GH.

    I am keeping an eye on the wrappers as my OG batteries had that glossy wrapper and I remember it being easily subject to damage, especially when putting in/taking out of my Nitecore (contacts of the charger are spring loaded and if not careful will peel back a bit of the wrapper when extracting).

    I remember that all of my OG glossy batteries had some small damage to the wrappers which is why I tossed them and bought GBH2 with the matte finish. Did not have any issues with the matte wrapper batteries.

    Short version: I'm using my GH and the new batteries.

    If I set the house on fire, bring hot dogs and marshmallows! haha

    Now, as to the origins of the fire.....WTF knows.

    Its just my personal view, and not a shot at anyone else view, but I find speculation that this was an insurance scam to be completely without foundation on any fact revealed so far and, IMO, a bit premature and irresponsible.

    If more/new facts are revealed that changes my view, then so be it. But at the present, that does not appear to be the case.

    And consider....what...these three aerospace industry, MJ geek engineers, are suddenly experts in arson sufficient to fool both the FD and their insurance investigators. I mean, I don't think these guys run with the Boulder version of Tony Soprano. It just seems a bit far fetched to me.

    Cheers
  • EconMan
    4.3k
    ts just my personal view, and not a shot at anyone else view, but I find speculation that this was an insurance scam to be completely without foundation on any fact revealed so far and, IMO, a bit premature and irresponsible.Baron23

    Except the "but" and the last word "irresponsible" DOES take a judgmental shot at someone else's "view". :joke:

    This is not a court of law but a discussion board where we are discussing a private company who has seemingly suffered liquidity issues for years, plagued with business and logistical challenges, and has a rather bad reputation as measured by the BBB and other metrics. Such a struggling business suddenly has its already questionable inventory "lost" in a fire. Yes, as stated I don't even know if there actually was a fire, but if there was.... given the trouble the company is in, a fire is at a minimum initially suspicious.

    People who torch their businesses are rarely experts in arson -- it's often how they get caught. They are stressed out with thread-bare emotions, people who want their business baby to now die because it will cost them less with a dead business than a living sick one. Rarely is it intensely premeditated, rather owners get desperate and act foolishly thinking an insurance company will save them.

    One former client -- mexican restaurant -- really nice people! I really liked them. They got into a situation where they had to keep running the place even though it was losing money and they had come to hate it. They had a three year lease on the venue which cost them roughly $5k/mth -- their books would have shown profit if it wasn't for this lease (they rented into high a rent district). So they kept it open because operating meant they would lose less money than if they shut down, since sales exceeded variable expenses. But it became clear at the end, they HATED their business and had come to view it as a sort of prison.
    They purposely left a pressure cooker going with the emergency valve plugged. Hood turned off, giant container of oil right next to it -- it EXPLODED and also started a really bad smoke fire, but did NOT burn the place to the ground or anything. But 5 gallons of oil makes some serious smoke and smoke damages a lot.
    They got busted apparently because they found emails and texts between the mom, dad, and daughter, and the daughter got nervous on interrogation and sung like a bird to the cops. They got caught because the authorities learned about their problems with their merchant bank, and put 2 and 2 together... Just their merchant bank lost about $100k (I was on the hook for 20%), not to mention their landlord, employees, etc. About a month before, they had started selling "gift cards" at a discount -- 2 for 1 -- and their Merchant Bank shut them down... then they couldn't keep operating since without CC's not much revenue with cash payers. Had the authorities NOT known about the merchant account fraud, the arson case probably would not have stuck, and the younger daughter would not have sung like a bird.

    And it sort of hurt my feelings. I liked them, and they liked me, but they had no problem stealing from me. When the bank called me and said they had sold $50k of prepaid meals, I about shit, as I knew if true it meant they were stealing from the bank, and by extension me.

    So AGAIN, not saying any foul play was done in this specific instance. However, the statistics of such things does push an inquisitive person to consider the plausible possibilities -- and in the case of Hopper Labs, they do seem to fit the statistical profile. If there was a fire, and I was the Fire Marshall, knowing just what I know which isn't much, I would be suspicious. If I was their Merchant Bank, I would certainly be nervous right now.
  • Terpenetime
    210
    Trevor from Hopper Labs has posted this message on FC...

    Hello everyone,

    Sorry I have been out for the last few days. Myself "Trevor" does a lot of the posts on here for you guys, and I have been extremely busy and feeling the pressure with the fire. I have not had a chance to read much of what has been posted since but will comment on what I have and give a mini update.

    1. We cannot say for sure it was or was not the battery, but as we noted in the notice, we are not taking any chances with that. We have sent disposal notices out and will not be shipping any more of this batch unless something changes.

    2. The fire was devastating but not catastrophic. Most of the custom machines and equipment have survived with a manageable level of damage. The fire burned two centrally located 4'x8' tables and was then extinguished by a lack of oxygen remaining in the space.

    3. Much of the existing inventory was located far enough away to not be greatly affected. It is stored in a separate location.

    4. Some warranty was destroyed, some was not. We were closing in on completing it, so the loss here is not extream. We will, of course, replace any destroyed devices, but we do need time.

    5. We are incredibly fortunate to have an adjacent space to us that was undamaged. We will temporarily move into this space to get operations restarted as soon as possible. We will be back up and running the website with accessories by this coming week. I hope many of you can "contribute" to the cause by ordering a few small things as funds are tight.

    6. We only carry a general liability policy which, does not cover inventory or equipment damage. Any notion that we are getting anything from the fire is incorrect. Only our landlord will see any insurance money.

    7. It will take time to get a new battery. We have an excellent safety record with the device/battery, and we expect that to continue. We have taken swift action and will resolve this issue.

    8. We will issue refunds to those who did not receive orders that did not ship out. We will replace the batteries which we are asking to be removed from circulation.

    9. Please be patient. I will be on here as much as I can to answer questions and solicit advice.

    I am sure there is a ton of speculation on whether we will survive this or not, and that is to be expected. I can assure you we will. We have a long way to go, but we will prevail and go on to build more amazing things. It has been a rough journey so far, for not only us but everyone who has been a supporter. I ask for your support once again to clear this unexpected hurdle and continue building this great device.
  • Baron23
    9.9k
    I rather thought you would think that my last post was a direct shot at you, which it was not, which is why I added:

    ts just my personal view, and not a shot at anyone else view,Baron23

    In fact, this post was for the very most part just a re-post of a post I made on FC where such speculation was running rampant... and doing in the absence of any verified facts.

    I appreciate your view on it, however, I suspect that as an economist you have a much greater handle on statistics and the like than I, who tried to forget all of that as soon as I graduated! haha

    But you know as well as I that your Mexican arsonist friends and Hopper Labs are two totally independent situations with absolutely no linkage. One does not reflect properly on the other, IMO.

    Have a great day, my friend. We will see what comes of all of this.
  • EconMan
    4.3k


    It's all good... and I agree..... was never offended or even bothered... hence the emoticon :)
  • justjustin
    448
    I'm rooting for them! The GH is my favorite portable vaporizer and I hope this doesn't set them back too much. Guess we won't be seeing the SS Case and External Charger anytime soon
  • Pud
    360
    I'm glad the damage is nowhere near as bad as originally stated as a total loss of everything. I'm sure they will be able to bounce back... very fortunate to have extra space right there that was empty so they can temporarily slide into there while the primary space is cleaned/repaired. Good luck!
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