• Auggiedog
    Decided to up my game as a total amateur, newbie to smoking. I finally found some herb that doesn't make me completely paranoid which has been my lifelong aversion to smoking. I grew up in Alaska.

    I'm considering FF2, Pax 3 and D-IQ. (Mighty is outside my $300 threshold of pain).

    Some details: I doubt very much that I would be taking this out from the house all that much, but I would sometimes. So ultra portability is not paramount.

    I won't be passing around so group use isn't a consideration.

    The only vape I've ever used was the Mighty and it's a little bit beyond the budget I'm comfortable with given other really great options. I'd rather spend $300 then $400 if possible to get great results.

    Any thoughts? I'm leaning to the FF2 because of on demand, efficiency, I think I read somewhere that stealth of smell is really good.

    If I had to guess, I'd probably be sneaking sessions occasionally in the garage....if that makes sense. I have kids.

  • Baron23Accepted Answer
    Please keep in mind that we are talking opinions here only, but I'm not excited about any of these three vapes.

    FF2 - I'm not going there in detail in this post....but PLEASE read all owner comments here, on fuckcombustion.com, and reddit on the FF2 and Firefly the company and then make your decision.

    Pax 3 - My overall impression is that they just did a bit of clean up/refresh. Nothing new and the Pax is getting a bit long in the tooth in terms of tech and design. If you are a session/pass it around kind of vapor, you may well like Pax but its not on the top of my lists.

    D-IQ - lots of people loving this vape. Lots of folks concerned about it getting hot in their hand, material and assembly issues (in fairness, this is a newly released product), app issues (again, I'm sure the app will continue to undergo updates/bug fixes as with pretty much all software), and CS response (they say they were overwhelmed by sales beyond their expectations and were caught a bit flat footed). I think for me, the main issue is much like the Pax....I'm not fond of large conduction ovens. Pax has oven spacers and they are also offered by New Vape who makes really nice stuff. DaVinci needs to come up with a way to reduce chamber size...a spacer, a different shaped pearl, something, and they say that they are indeed working on just that.

    Myself, for a new vaporist, I would recommend the Boundless CFX as I think it works very well and the price is right for a new person at $169-179.

    Do your due diligence. READ owner posts on their experience. Do NOT just read one professional review and take that to the bank. The responsibility for the buying decision ultimately rests with you, so its well worth your time to do the research as we are all varied and different and will have different views of a device.

    Best of luck, hope this was helpful.
  • Halada
    I am in the same boat as you OP, considering many options, including all the ones on your list. I settled on the Mighty because I can afford to, but otherwise I would have went with the Boundless CFX. I have spent hours reading forums and reddit and there were just too many QA and customer service issues with Davinci and Pax right now for me to consider them seriously.

    Unfortunately I have also received and read negative reports on S&B customer service, and the Mighty will probably have to go be repaired eventually, but there was zero complaint on performance. It's also been out for a while, and has a proven track record of quality. The Boundless CFX often came up as the Mighty's more affordable cousin in comments. The burnt plastic smell with first burn-in is a comment that comes up often, but it goes away, and otherwise not many negatives, especially considering the price.

    Good luck!
  • DregerUS
    I completely agree with you very on point big high-five
  • jnick
    The CFX is an awesome first vape choice. I believe it to be the best/most affordable/ worth every penny, vape on the market..

    I own an IQ and love it, but it does require a full pack which turns out to be a pretty big session in ten minutes depending on your vape temps. You can turn it off and come back to it but it's not as good the second time around.

    The CFX does better with smaller amounts, you can go with a half pack and still get great vape production and taste. People seem to speak highly of all the boundless vapes, i own a CFX and love the battery life, precise temp controls, water piece attachment great buy... I end up using my CFX and IQ each about 50/50.. for the buck and convenience of a smaller pack go with the CFX..

    I think the FF2 is the wrong choice for your first vape, i found it difficult to use kinda finicky and having to stir was very annoying and wound up just being messy.
  • Cl4ud3
    I do love the CFX, such a great vape and shows you don't need to go over $200 and still get quality that just works. I would recommend getting it ELB modded too for an even better experience.

    I think the FF2 is the wrong choice for your first vape, i found it difficult to use kinda finicky and having to stir was very annoying and wound up just being messy.

    That was one thing that annoyed me too, the bowl needing filling to the top then stir after a hit or two just makes herb get all over the lid. I would of preferred a recessed bowl to make stirring easier, cleaner. Another issue was stealth, while it is a small unit having to stir every hit or two and letting a huge whiff of terps out spoilt the stealth considerably. FF2 as a first vape might leave you a negative feeling towards vaping.
  • Bruce
    The IQ, ($ 275). It is the best portable vaporizer that I have ever used and I have some good ones. The ten-year warranty can also be a deal breaker. I have read others have some issues. I agree about the unit getting hot. That does happen, I just put it down. This being the only issue and possibly the customer service response issues. I think it's worthwhile, I got a good unit and it kicks ass. I would guess that if you ordered it you would have the same experience. The IQ is backed by a ten year warranty.

    The FF2 ($329) is exactly as described. On demand convection vaporizer. You make the vapor. It's made well, looks good and is also versatile that it also plays nice with concentrates this a major plus that this unit is a multi-purpose unit. That's a space saver and money saver. I too have had issues with the unit getting too hot. I do have to put it down, but not a big deal to me I am glad the unit is working hard. I have read that there has been some technical issues reported. I know the company behind the products care a lot. The reason that is important is because They will do the right thing by you if you choose their vape. It's not uncommon to buy a vape and its a hole in the wall operation and you will be very disatisfied. The FF2 has an impressive 10-year warranty.

    Baron covered the same vapes and the boundless vapes, lots of good info to help you with your choice.

    Keep us posted!
  • Auggiedog
    Thanks for the personal experience on the FF2. It appealed to me because of the convection on demand and ability to be "interrupted" without wasting material. The "on demand" heat was appealing and seemed to fit my use criteria. People rave about the taste.
  • Auggiedog
    I can definitely "afford" the Mighty if need be,but I just felt it was a bit big with the 2 batteries and way over my needs as a lightweight. I'll be moving to an herb friendly state soon, until then....not so much. Also, I'm a nerd when it comes to materials science and really appreciate build quality. The FF2 lacks the plastics of the Mighty which I am really trying not to be too persuaded by. I would take the best functioning plastic vape over the least functioning metal/glass/titanium/unobtanium/etc.
  • Roc pietro
    Owning both mighty and ff2 I'd go might best vapor no stirring and works well with little material as well just like ff2 the ff2 battery is awful and the unit can get really hot. I've had zero complaints on my mighty so far
  • Cl4ud3
    Saying all that the FF2 still has glue in the path from the gasket and a plastic mouthpiece. The mouthpiece taste is noticeable to me after using all glass.
  • Baron23
    I have a Mighty. I like it a LOT. I almost bought a CFX as I like it a LOT and probably will do so as an alternate/back up some day. But it was a hard decision.

    But I have been using cannabis for 50 years (yeah, you read that right...fuck, I got old) and have a number of vaporizers so I went for the Mighty even though I think S&B are generally too dang expensive (but I have a Digit Volcano too so quality does almost always trump price for me).

    For a new vaporist, the CFX is a great vape at a great price and has NO learning curve. If you can breath, you can vape with it. The price is right for a new or light user (like yourself) and I think you will be very happy with one.

    I find the Mighty to be built like a brick shit house. Yeah, its a bit big but I don't go tooling around a lot with a MJ vape in my pocket so I personally don't care.

    I'm not sure where you are coming from with the materials science reference, but before you crown the FF2 the champ of materials compared to the Mighty/CFX, you should take a look inside one first. There are pics out there on the net, particularly pics of the heating coil, surrounding structure, solder, and the electronics. You may revise your view.

    This is me personally and applies to no one else. I also like well built stuff. I like quality. But I don't worry or fuss to much about vaporizer material issues. Yeah, I don't want to suck in Chinese glue when I vape, but some of the concerns I read others post about are just so damn far out. I try to keep all of this stuff in perspective. I live in the Washington, DC metro area and often ponder simple breathing on a street corner in summer as the buses and trucks roll by and then quit obsessing about what is/is not possibly in the build of my vape.

    Don't get me wrong, I want clean air path end to end, no electronics in the air path, no outgassing toxic glues and binders, etc. But a plastic case like the Mighty's is just fine and is very sturdy. The stuff feels like old Bakelite and is perhaps a more modern version of it.

    Now, one of the concerns about the Mighty (and the CFX) is that the batteries are soldered in and are not owner removable. Combine this with the fact that ALL Li ion batteries will fail as a result of accumulated charge/discharge cycles and that concerns folks. But max charging cycles for 18650 type batteries is, I believe, in the 200-300 range (and is highly dependent on how discharged you allow your battery to get and other related issues) which should last a one session a day vaporist at least a couple of years. S&B have said that they solder in the batteries for enhanced performance issues (I think lower electrical resistance to soldered connection and thus less heat dissipated in the battery compartment....maybe??).

    But with all of that said, I agree that ALL portable battery powered vapes should have owner replaceable battery compartment designs. Many are going that way, but not enough yet. I can't agree more and is something that DaVinci did very right with the IQ IMO.

  • Auggiedog
    Thanks so much for the thoughts. Seems like the CFX really may be the answer for me. If I can get a bit of use out of it the non replaceable batteries aren't so much an issue. The IQ is if interest though. Lots of complaints though.
  • Baron23
    Another thought, @Cl4ud3 can maybe confirm this, but I believe Boundless has established a $25 charge for battery replacement. This is way better than the $75 that S&B wants to do the same on a Mighty/Crafty.

    Just something to think about.

  • Cl4ud3
    They did say that yes. They seem to be very consumer orientated.
  • Hitz
    Dude go with the CFX or the CF Hybrid if you're worried about batteries that need to be replaced. But I've been extremely satisfied with the CFX mainly due to its ease of use, consistent performance and fast charge and long lasting battery. What's cool about most of the boundless products (CFX included) is there's different attachments you can get to switch things up like a water pipe adapter that works awesome with any glass that you have, and soon there's a micro bubbler coming out!

    Keep us posted man!
  • Jen
    Might I also suggest a look at the Sticky Brick Jr AND CFV? Both offer on-demand convection much like the FF2.

    I own the FF2, Mighty, Sticky Brick Jr, CFV and the Pax 2, but not the IQ.

    I love the taste and efficiency of the FF2 and am glad to have it. I also very much love the taste and efficiency of the Sticky Brick, but it's butane and not for everyone. However, for me and IMO, the Brick hits a bit harder than the FF2. But you can easily control the temp of the FF2 via the app.

    The CFV is amazing but has terrible battery life. The Pax 2 has much less flavor through the bowl but is fantastic for sessions and passing around/sharing.

    The Mighty is the Mighty and rules the world. Easy, semi-efficient, hits big, lots of vapor.

    Start a collection and enjoy them all?
  • VapeCritic
    Love the thread guys the participation is awesome!!!

    All of you make very valid points and provide priceless input (Y) (Y)

    My two cents: Have you considered the Boundless CFV like Jen mentioned above?

    It's like almost the performance of the FF2, and it's pretty much on-demand convection, but it's much easier to use and has less issues (based on feedback).

    I've found it to be really good for turning on and taking a couple of hits and then turning it off, and then later when I come back I open it up and stir it and resume the session to get a few more hits, and it's not that bad the second time around.

    Then again most of the time I use it I vape the whole load in one sesh, which is only ~0.1g-0.15g, with a stir or two during the session.

    The cool thing about the CFV is that it won't cook your herb when you're not hitting it like a conduction vape would.

    And as Jen also said:

    Start a collection and enjoy them all?Jen

    8-) 8-)
  • Auggiedog
    Oh boy....more choices!

    Something about the IQ really appeals to me: form factor, pocketabity, decent taste, containment, stealth. I realize there are some wrinkles regarding QC and customer service. Replaceable and standard battery is quite appealing. I own 18650's for flashlights but can't imagine blowing through a battery as a lightweight.

    My lungs are pretty sensitive and have been burning from a glass pipe and too big for me clouds. So a nice cool convection is appealing. So the FF2 appeals there. I'm a sucker for design as previously mentioned.

    I'm getting completely mixed reviews of so many models on forums. One person loves, another doesn't. It's pretty funny reading reviews and posts as an amateur. There isn't much consensus.
  • Baron23
    I'm getting completely mixed reviews of so many models on forums. One person loves, another doesn't. It's pretty funny reading reviews and posts as an amateur. There isn't much consensus.Auggiedog

    Not necessarily in all cases. But THIS is the judgement YOU have to make...are reports from the field inconsistent and if so does that pose a risk to my buying decision?

    Just my personal view, but reports on a vape are all over the map, then its too inconsistent for me to want to jump in right now. I'm not a tech early adopter, I'm looking to basically buy an appliance. I look for solid reviews and when there are outliers I need to evaluate the report to see if I think its valid and a risk for how I use it.

    There are indeed vapes that, although they may not suit your use case, they are almost universally acclaimed or at least no one is calling it a malfunctioning POS. The Cloud EVO and Enano log vape for example. I personally feel that the Mighty falls into this category. I even think the CFX falls into this category based on reports I have read but the to me the jury is still out on the CFV and CFC. There are clearly others.

    This is just my view and I'm only one voice. Cheers
  • Auggiedog
    true enough. There are those Universally loved units. I guess I meant more about Pros/Cons, the mix of what is important. Or one person for example LOVES the FF2 even having owned lots of other models, whereas another doesn't love it at all.

    I'll order something before the week is out.
  • Dinsdale
    Another vote for CFX here.
    I wish I'd discovered it earlier after going through Davinci Ascent, Plenty, Mighty, Pax 2, and FF2.
    It's been my daily driver for nearly half a year.
    It's simple and does the job admirably. The low price is an awesome bonus.

    I understand Pax 3's pretty much a shiny upgrade on Pax 2, so I'll just say that it's discreet and easy to clean. But, it's not very satisfying with a small chamber, weird LED indicators, and you have to pucker up and suck on it like a baby bottle. It does the job, but I feel kind of dumb using it.

    My Firefly 2 arrived defective. Its bowl wasn't vented properly, so I got no draw at all.
    It took three emails from them with stupid and insulting user tips that didn't address my complaint before they came up with an RMA.
    Even repaired, it was frustrating and fussy to use. The shallow bowl holds little, and yet requires stirring. It also overheated quickly. And, despite coming with two batteries, it takes the main unit to charge.
    I couldn't frisbee it fast enough.
  • Biz
    I will have to look into the Boundless line out of curiosity, I am not in the market for a vape but I continue to hear positive things about a product that somehow slipped under my radar - maybe because of the lower price. That said, over the life of a vape, I do think that a couple hundred dollars here or there won't matter over the long term, and one should simply go for the package that does exactly what one wants.
  • Auggiedog
    confirming some of what I'm concluding. For my first vaporizer I'm not looking for ultra finicky. A little effort is fine. Also not looking for huge clouds (not important to me).

    I'm very intrigued with the Davinci IQ also.
  • MisterWeed
    Haven't used the IQ or Pax3, but FF2 stands out for me. Best taste, beautiful design, top notch materials, glass bowl, vapor path, and it works amazing with both herbs and concentrates. With the S&B and pax'es, you still waste material if you don't use it all up in one session with friends...
  • Auggiedog
    if you kill power though you can go back though right? Albeit with compromised flavor? I was thinking maybe going with small Davinci IQ probably never finishing a session though it has a really small bowl
  • jnick

    good choice i love my IQ. Yes, you can come back to it for seconds and your right with a little flavor loss. The IQ really surprised me as small as it is and what it produces, feels well made and the removable battery is nice......My unit does not get too hot, it gets warmer towards the end of a session which to me is about 13-15 min if i finish it all at once. Davinci has a really nice water piece adapter if your down...
  • MisterWeed
    Yes. However, it's not about the bowl size or how little you pack the vaporizer. FF2 bowl cools down instantly, as soon as you stop inhaling. My experience with all conduction vapes (Pax2, Crafty, and I am sure IQ is the same) is that you can not just turn off the heating process. You stop inhaling and turn off these conduction devices, but your weed keeps cooking inside. In fact, even when they are completely turned off, you can still get decent vapor from them, but you shouldn't be able to right?! You don't have that problem with FF2. Also, the reason that FF2 tastes so much better is that there is no heat up time. During the time that conduction vaporizers heat up, they waste some very tasty material.
  • Auggiedog
    UPDATE: I went with the Boundless CFX with Bud's link to Planet of the Vapes.

    In my research with all of your assistance I was down to:

    Boundless CFX or CFV
    Davinci IQ ($100 more than above)
    Mighty ($400 or a bit less)

    I decided as a newbie that I would get my feet wet with something on the lower end of the cost spectrum and see how it goes. Far from disposable at $170 it's a low enough starting point that I can always "upgrade" if I'm so moved. My friend has the Mighty so I can occasionally enjoy that and compare side by side to the CFX.

    Thanks and I'll update as soon as I get.
  • Flipz
    Sweet, let us know how you like it after using it. (Y)
  • Baron23
    I'm betting that once you get it, you will no longer view it as an inexpensive, perhaps disposable vape. I think you will really like it.

    I bought a Mighty instead but it was a VERY hard call. I have used both and the Mighty is a better product IMO but not by much and the CFX is very good and at a very good price. I will still probably order one at some point as a Mighty alternative/back up

    Come back and let us know how you like your CFX when you get it.
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